Scientology seriously folks!

kidd05 · May 16, 2006

Jeremy man you are asking all the right questions!!!

Won't get to answer everything all at once since I've to go home from work soon... but anyways..

Firstly, I can say everything I want to say and base it on the Bible, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me... so I hope that no one thinks I see everyone as lower than me coz that is definetely not the case... as Clarke said earlier, it's just sad (and yes we are elitists in a sense but then we do rely on God's grace) that a lot of friends we have, that we love, aren't gonna be saved. That's just how it is... some of yous might already be thinking I'm crazy so the feeling is mutual hehe... the Christians from the early church condemned religious leaders and they were put to death..

The statistics I said was from wikipedia... so whether it's right or wrong, it would be close to correct... and I agree with you full on, and that's the reason why I put it there. I don't believe AT ALL that there are 2.5 billion Christians in the world's population. It's much much fewer than that.

And what I meant by the Truth should be offensive, is that it should have an effect. It's not thrown out there just to slowly float back to the ground and disappear forever. It either convicts you, or condemns you. So if say a person who believes in Karma tells me that if I don't do enough good things, I'll turn into a maggot, and I said "THATS A LOAD OF RUBBISH". If that person 100% believes that that is true, then either Im gonna be a maggot, or I'll listen to him and start doing a lot of good things.

With the question about the bible being the only source of truth, please see my response to Jase.. it will always be arguable because again it all boils down to your faith.

kidd05 · May 16, 2006

LOL nah no ones bashing anything, we're just sharing our views and our beliefs here. I'll stop when this thread gets locked.

Thanks Cath! Glad we're still mates hehe.

Jase- I don't think anything that was supposed to be in the Bible was left out? You would notice though that some of the gospels wouldn't be exactly the same as the others (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) in the way they were written, but the context and the message remains the same. Any examples of "gospels" that were left out?

Oh, and "faith" and "opinion".. BIG DIFFERENCE MATE.

One can believe that there is absolute truth, and others can tell that person that it's his opinion.. but to that person, it is the truth.. and it can very well be the truth.. so its not an opinion.

Ja$e · May 16, 2006

Just seen documentary'and things like that, for example apparently there were writings by Judas etc. Thanks for the info anyway Carlos some helped, some may have posed new questions, either way it's G O D all the way with me!

kidd05 · May 16, 2006

I doubt Judas was used by God to write scripture like how he used Paul, John, Peter, James, etc. The Bible refers to Judas as the "son of perdition". If his words were considered "truth" and put in the Bible, we're all doomed! That's probably fictional Jase, just like the claims in the Da Vinci Code. Otherwise it would be in there.

Tom Cruise opened up a can of worms here.

kidd05 · May 16, 2006

Sorry for my spamming but we can't have Shoes being the #1 poster here!!

Jeremy- it's very easy to shut a Christian off. Just ask him to make you believe without a doubt that there is a God and that everything He wants to tell you is in the Bible. That would kill a discussion straightaway.. that's coz again, it's all about your faith.

It can be summed in this passage:

1 Corinthians 15:13
13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

In short- we Christians put our every hope on Jesus. If He is false as a lot says He is, then we are to be the most pitied of men.

boersy23 · May 16, 2006

i might sound a bit nuts but i don't believe in god and was a little prick(lots of sins) growing up then i had a near death experience in wich i saw a white tunnel of light. they told my mum i was going to die and did but came back. why would i see this light which is a christian belief not mine. also what is to be said about the scriptures they looked at lately that pre date the bible.

chadjaja · May 16, 2006

Isn't there more Hindu's in the world than anything else JZA? Thats what I thought?

kidd05 · May 16, 2006

Whoops sorry guys I meant I got the stats from www.adherents.com. Don't rely on the accuracy and if anyone can get a better source that would be great.

Chad:

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

Please disregard my numbers earlier.

*edit* Actually, wikipedia has this info too and they've linked the website above.

JZA · May 16, 2006

kidd05 said:
Sorry for my spamming but we can't have Shoes being the #1 poster here!!

Jeremy- it's very easy to shut a Christian off. Just ask him to make you believe without a doubt that there is a God and that everything He wants to tell you is in the Bible. That would kill a discussion straightaway.. that's coz again, it's all about your faith.

It can be summed in this passage:

1 Corinthians 15:13
13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

In short- we Christians put our every hope on Jesus. If He is false as a lot says He is, then we are to be the most pitied of men.

well, at least you realise there is the possibility your all completely wrong, thats more than most christians i have dealt with.

but the thing is, there are so many inconsistencies and contradictions contained within the beliefs of christianity. for example, christians say those who dont believe in jesus are doomed. well, what about people in countries where christianity is not even known? in primitive civilisations in south america, africa, asia...they have no knowledge of your beliefs so they are going to be punished for all eternity through no fault of their own? and if god is all merciful and ever forgiving, why is there punishment at all?

religion is not accepted (in the majority of cases) through god touching the person in a spiritual way, it is much more common to be a result of the environment you grow up in, and the people who inhabit that environment. if a person grows up in a society where the most popular religion is christianity, and their family and/or friends are christians, of course that person is going to be christian, it stems from humanities overwhelming need to conform. just like if you were born in india, you would undoubtedly be a hindu rather than a christian.

kidd05 · May 16, 2006

FYI Jeremy, the text has a sarcastic connotation. Christians are sure of their hope. A Christian who doubts his faith is either still young, or doesn't understand it fully yet. It's just taking it to the extreme, and saying we're the most pitied, but that's not the case. "Elitist" maybe but that's what the bible claims.

Re being in a culture where there is no opportunity to know God. That is not for us to judge. In the text earlier, it says God's qualities are obvious.. and that no man has an excuse. I would think that if a man was born in solitude, if the Lord really wants to save him, then He will be saved. And that again falls down to grace.

Re punishment. God created perfect man. Man sinned out of his own will, making them imperfect (and yes, one is a sinner even before being born) and God, being not only a loving God but also a God of justice, had to punish that disobedience, hence our sufferings today. But because He is both loving and just, He also provided a way out of that punishment, and yes that is via the blood of Jesus- His work on the cross. If you believe that He is sufficient to save you from your sin.

So first step, is confession that you are a sinner- therefore evil- and in need of a saviour.

JZA · May 16, 2006

kidd05 said:
FYI Jase, the text has a sarcastic connotation. Christians are sure of their hope. A Christian who doubts his faith is either still young, or doesn't understand it fully yet. It's just taking it to the extreme, and saying we're the most pitied, but that's not the case. "Elitist" maybe but that's what the bible claims.

Re being in a culture where there is no opportunity to know God. That is not for us to judge. In the text earlier, it says God's qualities are obvious.. and that no man has an excuse. I would think that if a man was born in solitude, if the Lord really wants to save him, then He will be saved. And that again falls down to grace.

ah im jeremy, not jase "christians are sure of their hope":thats an oxymoron right there. hope is uncertainty; you dont hope for something if your sure about it. a christian who doubts their faith is just one who is thinking logically and independantly, without the influence of others. i know because i was one of those people. i was devout until about 18 when i started to think for myself about life and the world around me, rather than put blind faith in a book's teachings. personally, i believe if god has indeed bestowed us with this amazingly valuable gift that is our brains, we should do our utmost to utilise it and explore every possibility, every path that is open to us, to use it to its fullest potential...free thinking is an essential part of that. to gain knowledge is one of the most important things in life. ignorance and blind, stubborn belief lead to intolerance, bigotry, hatred and eventually war.

as for the last paragraph, well, that just sounds like a stock standard explanation that christians love to use when they cant explain something: "well i dont know, but im sure god will work it out somehow, god works in mysterious ways etc" its a great line! it means you dont have to use logic or reason as you have unshakable faith.

kidd05 · May 16, 2006

Christian Faith is different to the english word "faith" or "hope".

Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."

We're gonna start going in circles now, and I already anticipated your last response that will shut me off- "bottomline is Carlos, you cannot prove to me your faith because I need evidence that will convince me."

So lemme ask you something Jeremy, what do you need to hear to believe in what Christians stand for? Answer would be "nothing". Why? Coz people cannot "come" to the Lord. God decides who gets to have fellowship with him. Everyone who He does not enable to know Him will always reject Him and His truth.

Prove me wrong and say that you believe and of course I'll be very happy.

Trey · May 16, 2006

is anyone here a member of the Hillsong Church?

kidd05 · May 16, 2006

Not me. Why Trey? I'm curious.

jimmy jackson · May 16, 2006

This thread makes me itchy.

LSD, porn, gambling, drinking, parking in handicap spots, infidelity, various revenge acts, theft, hooliganism and general corruption.

I just wanna know if there's any hope for me if I be good as of tomorrow?

Trey · May 16, 2006

kidd05 said:
Not me. Why Trey? I'm curious.

Im not a member, but Ive seen it explode over the last few years, with some lets just say "interesting" recruitment techniques...

always good to smash the hillsong team at bball hahaha

chadjaja · May 16, 2006

jimmy jackson said:
This thread makes me itchy.

LSD, porn, gambling, drinking, parking in handicap spots, infidelity, various revenge acts, theft, hooliganism and general corruption.

I just wanna know if there's any hope for me if I be good as of tomorrow?

That just makes you a South Australian not a bad person

jimmy jackson · May 16, 2006

Thanks Chad.

And I just wanna go on record as saying, I have spoken to the great one, and he assures me that your sexy legs give you a free right of passage, regardless of what you do.

I want to hug somebody.

WoobieZarz · May 16, 2006

Never laughed so hard, thanks Wayno/Chadly!!!

kidd05 · May 16, 2006

Makes me wonder how Wayne suddenly pops up out of nowhere on interesting discussions. He may very well have extra-ordinary powers.

Trey- Make sure you elbow the Hillsongers everytime you play them.

Scientology seriously folks!

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