Official ESP 2016 NRL Traders Thread (Sell Sheet Page 14)

Just bought my Lillyman signature off Ebay for less than the price of a box. Seriously, why do people bust this stuff anymore? Through a bog standard case break spot and an extra $160 I have completed my team set. (Although I am sure chasing an unfashionable and unsuccessful team plays a part)

It is quite a nice set and putting a set together through busting is always more fun, but is it worth financial suicide over release after release? Especially when you can grab a case break spot and a couple of starters to join in on the Xmas feeling when it comes out.

As fun as sets with tonnes of inserts can be, ESP need to make smaller sets to keep the industry viable long-term. Without master set collectors, people aren't going to keep buying the product well after release date.

Anyway, now that I'm a team collector, rock bottom prices are great for me in the short term, so c'est la vie
 
nznrl said:
Just bought my Lillyman signature off Ebay for less than the price of a box. Seriously, why do people bust this stuff anymore? Through a bog standard case break spot and an extra $160 I have completed my team set. (Although I am sure chasing an unfashionable and unsuccessful team plays a part)

It is quite a nice set and putting a set together through busting is always more fun, but is it worth financial suicide over release after release? Especially when you can grab a case break spot and a couple of starters to join in on the Xmas feeling when it comes out.

As fun as sets with tonnes of inserts can be, ESP need to make smaller sets to keep the industry viable long-term. Without master set collectors, people aren't going to keep buying the product well after release date.

Anyway, now that I'm a team collector, rock bottom prices are great for me in the short term, so c'est la vie
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I agree with you 100% but it all comes down to whats known as the minimum guarantee....... ESP have to sell a LOT of stock to meet this minimum guarantee for the licence.
They need to sell enough that they can cover their printing costs, cover their minimum guarantee, cover the costs of staff/design and make a profit.

I agree......smaller and more limited sets would be great, but to keep the licence and do this would mean the cost of the minimum guarantee (which is significant) would probably wipe out any profits and probably make it not viable to pay for the licence. Hence why Traders is 1800 cases with 36 packs per box and 12 boxes a case, power play heaps of cases and even elite still 600 cases.

Look at Panini in the US......the minimum guarantee for NBA means they have to put out 25 + products per year.....NFL could be 30 different products.
 
Matt26 said:
I agree with you 100% but it all comes down to whats known as the minimum guarantee....... ESP have to sell a LOT of stock to meet this minimum guarantee for the licence.
They need to sell enough that they can cover their printing costs, cover their minimum guarantee, cover the costs of staff/design and make a profit.

I agree......smaller and more limited sets would be great, but to keep the licence and do this would mean the cost of the minimum guarantee (which is significant) would probably wipe out any profits and probably make it not viable to pay for the licence. Hence why Traders is 1800 cases with 36 packs per box and 12 boxes a case, power play heaps of cases and even elite still 600 cases.

Look at Panini in the US......the minimum guarantee for NBA means they have to put out 25 + products per year.....NFL could be 30 different products.
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So ESP/TLA wont be round much longer? Unless Dealers, and i use the term loosely buy up big stock, ESP are shot ducks! And so are us collectors,
 
razor77 said:
So ESP/TLA wont be round much longer? Unless Dealers, and i use the term loosely buy up big stock, ESP are shot ducks! And so are us collectors,
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I think they will still be around for a while (a lot of stock goes to network services newsagents etc - now Gordon & Gotch) but yes I think Elite 2015 hurt a LOT of dealers in how it was sold.

Cheers
Matt
 
Its only 2 weeks into new release and as said before, resale prices are ridiculous, The dealers or what is left of them will have to decide very soon, whether it is in their best interest to continue on with this! How are they supposed to make a living?
 
I got most of my set from a case bust team spot (love them!). Got everything I didn't need from starters and loved every second of it! I love the bust! Now, to buy 3 morgan sigs as they slowly surface :)
 
Matt26 said:
I agree with you 100% but it all comes down to whats known as the minimum guarantee....... ESP have to sell a LOT of stock to meet this minimum guarantee for the licence.
They need to sell enough that they can cover their printing costs, cover their minimum guarantee, cover the costs of staff/design and make a profit.

I agree......smaller and more limited sets would be great, but to keep the licence and do this would mean the cost of the minimum guarantee (which is significant) would probably wipe out any profits and probably make it not viable to pay for the licence. Hence why Traders is 1800 cases with 36 packs per box and 12 boxes a case, power play heaps of cases and even elite still 600 cases.

Look at Panini in the US......the minimum guarantee for NBA means they have to put out 25 + products per year.....NFL could be 30 different products.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the overview, which adds a lot of perspective to the issue.

The big business approach of the NRL has done a lot of good things for rugby league and is predominantly trying to protect the future of the sport, but it is sad to see to see some of the innocence of the game lost in a money-first approach. I really hope that whoever has the licence can find a way to support the needs of dealers and collectors in a sustainable way, but as you have shown there are plenty of challenges ahead.

Noark-99 said:
I got most of my set from a case bust team spot (love them!). Got everything I didn't need from starters and loved every second of it! I love the bust! Now, to buy 3 morgan sigs as they slowly surface :)
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Starters are great fun. And no one could fault the fantastic breaks our dealers run.
 
razor77 said:
Its only 2 weeks into new release and as said before, resale prices are ridiculous, The dealers or what is left of them will have to decide very soon, whether it is in their best interest to continue on with this! How are they supposed to make a living?
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I agree....with master set collectors moving to team set collectors due to the sizes and costs of the sets, cards that would have been locked up in master sets now flood the market days after release.

It's always a race to the bottom in prices....people bust and immediately sell at low prices.....even saw a "prices reduced" thread 2 days after traders had dropped! That sets the benchmark for prices and makes it even harder for the resellers breaking stock and covering their costs.

It's tough out there at the moment!
 
nznrl said:
Thanks for the overview, which adds a lot of perspective to the issue.

The big business approach of the NRL has done a lot of good things for rugby league and is predominantly trying to protect the future of the sport, but it is sad to see to see some of the innocence of the game lost in a money-first approach. I really hope that whoever has the licence can find a way to support the needs of dealers and collectors in a sustainable way, but as you have shown there are plenty of challenges ahead.
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Like collectors whoever gets the licence will have to stick with a figure when purchasing it. The NRL will sell the licence (as any money is better than no money). However if companies are going to get into a bidding war for the licence than it will be the problems currently existing. Repeated images to keep costs down, mass production of cards to meet the minimum guarantee (and make a profit) resulting in bargain prices in the secondary market.
 
P_Phillips said:
Like collectors whoever gets the licence will have to stick with a figure when purchasing it. The NRL will sell the licence (as any money is better than no money). However if companies are going to get into a bidding war for the licence than it will be the problems currently existing. Repeated images to keep costs down, mass production of cards to meet the minimum guarantee (and make a profit) resulting in bargain prices in the secondary market.
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Fully agree with you
 
P_Phillips said:
Like collectors whoever gets the licence will have to stick with a figure when purchasing it. The NRL will sell the licence (as any money is better than no money). However if companies are going to get into a bidding war for the licence than it will be the problems currently existing. Repeated images to keep costs down, mass production of cards to meet the minimum guarantee (and make a profit) resulting in bargain prices in the secondary market.
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Rumour has it, nrl has not got any one interested in the licence, so we will be stuck with esp/dynamic possibly for a while longer.
In saying that if true, the dealers they have on board buying there product at the moment will probably not continue in the current format, as esp has shot themselves in the foot.
ie: you have all commented on the prices and the secondary market, there cards are not holding any value and they are continuing screw dealers.(prices).
as collectors leave the market because of the enormity of the sets being produced- budget, less customers means less sales, we have all seen the prices these cards drop to in a short period of time, what must the dealers be thinking.
 
saintsforever said:
Rumour has it, nrl has not got any one interested in the licence, so we will be stuck with esp/dynamic possibly for a while longer.
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If true that no one else is interested it could improve future releases. As they will have to pay less for the licence which could help by having additional funds to pay for multiple player images to use for parallel and insert sets rather than recycling the same images and they don't have to produce as many cards smaller sets less inserts (to help bring back master collectors) and shorter print runs allowing cards to hold value and increasing their prices on the secondary market making buying packets and boxes the cheaper option rather than waiting a couple of weeks and buying box hits for a cheaper price than the box.
 
P_Phillips said:
If true that no one else is interested it could improve future releases. As they will have to pay less for the licence which could help by having additional funds to pay for multiple player images to use for parallel and insert sets rather than recycling the same images and they don't have to produce as many cards smaller sets less inserts (to help bring back master collectors) and shorter print runs allowing cards to hold value and increasing their prices on the secondary market making buying packets and boxes the cheaper option rather than waiting a couple of weeks and buying box hits for a cheaper price than the box.
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Peter, I could not see much changing with esp, the licence will not get any cheaper- inflation.
ESP seam to think they are on a winning formula/past releases selling out.
The only way there cards will hold any value is if we got rid of the internet all together.
We all know that is not going to happen.
I wish what you said was true.
 
Matt26 said:
I think they will still be around for a while (a lot of stock goes to network services newsagents etc - now Gordon & Gotch) but yes I think Elite 2015 hurt a LOT of dealers in how it was sold.

Cheers
Matt
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Matt not only 2015 Elite, this new release is hurting dealers who are not in the ESP boys club. For example the case run of 200 cases that was delivered to ESP for distribution to their preferred dealers only are stacked with not only the duo card instead of the case card but each case opened, that I have seen, has also produced either a legend sig or another duo plus the SAS Signature.
 
tak35bne said:
Matt not only 2015 Elite, this new release is hurting dealers who are not in the ESP boys club. For example the case run of 200 cases that was delivered to ESP for distribution to their preferred dealers only are stacked with not only the duo card instead of the case card but each case opened, that I have seen, has also produced either a legend sig or another duo plus the SAS Signature.
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If this is true, what are people thinking,
ie we shouldn't buy any boxes or cases from any one else except the preferred dealers because we have no chance of getting a hit like that.
newsagency s will have no major hits, hobby shops and petrol stations will not get any major hits.
Well done esp you really are driving people to ebay to buy high end cards.
Traders are for the up and coming collectors mainly kids is that what you not stated in 2013./common knowledge.
With the way the social media is, they will soon know not to buy any packs as there will be no major busts from these packs.
Therefore you are going to make a lot of kids unhappy and there parents.
You have p i s s e d off a lot of collectors already and you turn around and do this.
I feel like posting this all over the web.
Signed
pissed off collector.........
 
saintsforever said:
If this is true, what are people thinking,
ie we shouldn't buy any boxes or cases from any one else except the preferred dealers because we have no chance of getting a hit like that.
newsagency s will have no major hits, hobby shops and petrol stations will not get any major hits.
Well done esp you really are driving people to ebay to buy high end cards.
Traders are for the up and coming collectors mainly kids is that what you not stated in 2013./common knowledge.
With the way the social media is, they will soon know not to buy any packs as there will be no major busts from these packs.
Therefore you are going to make a lot of kids unhappy and there parents.
You have p i s s e d off a lot of collectors already and you turn around and do this.
I feel like posting this all over the web.
Signed
pissed off collector.........
Click to expand...

Have you noticed we are on page 36?
 
I also no for a fact that the 200 (SPECIAL) cases, were stacked with more in them than the other release of cases from 201- how ever many, but only available to very few dealers , absolute joke and how can this be ok ?
 
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