Immaculate and Flawless prices in free fall mode.

angpin · Jan 25, 2014

Hey Guys,
I've been keeping and eye on both Flawless and Immaculate cards since they were released and their prices appear to be in "free fall" mode. For such expensive products I can't believe how low the cards are selling. The question I'd like to ask is: have they finally bottomed out or will they still keep falling? I wouldn't want to be sitting on any cases of either product!!
Your valued thoughts please.
Kind regards Ang

ozballer23 · Jan 25, 2014

Agree with you Ang, thus for me it's not worth going in group breaks/buying boxes but just buying singles I like. Because Panini has flooded the market, the old supply vs demand rule comes into play.

West Oz Cards · Jan 25, 2014

IMO, the hobby is slightly ruined by the uber rich that buy 20 cases of product and bust the lot only to put them straight on feebay. Maybe they keep a few of their PC players, but the secondary market on feebay got saturated really quick with Flawless & Immaculate.

Initally most cards from these sellers were stupid high BIN/BO then gradually these have changed to auctions where people are getting really great deals on them.

These 15 to 20 big spenders are probably trying to re-coup outlay to invest in the next big product and with the bargains being had on their auction sales, its driving the rest of the private seller market down also.

And as Norm said, the supply seems to be outdoing the demand at the moment. I think it will get worse this year when Panini tried to slip another 5 new basketball products in between the 20 they already have.

Unless there is a whole ton of new blood coming into the hobby, or everyone got massive raises this year, there is just too much product.

angpin · Jan 25, 2014

ozballer23 said:
Agree with you Ang, thus for me it's not worth going in group breaks/buying boxes but just buying singles I like. Because Panini has flooded the market, the old supply vs demand rule comes into play.

Totally agree Norm, definitely wouldn't want to be involved in case breaks (or buying a case of either), as there's only going to be one or two people happy with what they get and the other 28 are better off saving their pennies and buying PC cards at ridiculously cheap prices.
Seems like the going rate for an Immaculate Box (not case) is $500US, here's what I could get for $500US (Immaculate only - 6 cards):

Need a base card so I thought I'd start with this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-13-PAU...14079945?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item4d17efe6c9

Now for 5 more cards to make up the rest of the box:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-13-Kob...47075458?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item417ba1cc82

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-13-Imm...30513232?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item3a8a6d2a50

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-13-Panin...87942801?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item56609ac391

Every box has to have a scrub:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DOMINIQUE-W...76561224?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item46198fbd48

And it wouldn't be Panini without a Redemption:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-13-IMMAC...77953257?pt=US_Basketball&hash=item3cdb570de9

Total cost $487.34!

Not too shabby for a box of Immaculate let alone a case!!!

angpin · Jan 25, 2014

Sorry might've gone a few $$$ over if I include shipping, I'd still be happy though.

drobfan8 · Jan 25, 2014

It was only a few years ago you could still get some Exquisite cards at extremely cheap prices compared to now.

The cream will rise to the top in time. I only rate a few sets out of both of these releases.

But with another Immac and Flawless coming out this year I can't see prices moving in any upwards direction at all. Which is great for a singles only buyer like me.

I'm hoping Anthony Davis signs again as a non-rookie which means I can afford his stuff.

The designs this year SHOULD be better also.

nichj99 · Jan 25, 2014

There are immaculate boxes on eBay for sale at $350 USD now, stumbled upon them this morning. Maybe a pre order case trying to at least break even?

angpin · Jan 25, 2014

nichj99 said:
There are immaculate boxes on eBay for sale at $350 USD now, stumbled upon them this morning. Maybe a pre order case trying to at least break even?

Good luck to them….don't like their chances when you can buy 6 semi-premium cards from Immaculate for less. It's disappointing and not worth the money or risk breaking a box or case of Immaculate (or Flawless ) anymore!
For the price of 2 boxes (assuming it's $350/box) you can buy one of the best cards to hit in the product:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121255459679?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Matt26 · Jan 25, 2014

I really love the designs of the flawless cards...if they keep going down in price.....ill be happy!

West Oz Cards · Jan 25, 2014

nichj99 said:
There are immaculate boxes on eBay for sale at $350 USD now, stumbled upon them this morning. Maybe a pre order case trying to at least break even?

Loose boxes are going for that much, I suspect from searched cases.

If there are sealed Immac cases going for USD$2100 I'd be in that!

angpin · Jan 25, 2014

M4YH3M1 said:
Loose boxes are going for that much, I suspect from searched cases.

If there are sealed Immac cases going for USD$2100 I'd be in that!

Still too expensive considering the hits, the value of the hits and the $AU. IMO Immaculate is a bust! Sorry.

West Oz Cards · Jan 25, 2014

haha, don't have to apologize!!

Agree that the Aussie $ is ruining it for us at the moment.

IMO, everytime you handover cold hard cash for a box of cardboard its a bust!!! LOL

drobfan8 · Jan 25, 2014

angpin said:
Still too expensive considering the hits, the value of the hits and the $AU. IMO Immaculate is a bust! Sorry.

I agree also, but high end box breaking is a million miles away from how I collect.

But it seems to serve a purpose for the rich people that are trying to hit a Logoman. They are some of the best EVER produced. So with a chase card like that, the millionaires out there will continue to bust cases and cases.

KB. · Jan 25, 2014

There definitely plenty of steals out there to be had!

hairyangryfella · Jan 25, 2014

Immaculate to me ended up being a bit bleh, but I still like Flawless. Single prices are still up as most people are listing as fixed prices, and those that don't, well they don't get as much, or shill....

The cards though (and I hope to have most of mine in next week), are still pretty great looking.

bradlieus · Jan 25, 2014

A couple of months ago people were asking $50+ for one of these:

(not my picture)

I got one off ebay a few weeks ago for 99 cents............

An on-card auto of a rookie (not a top rookie, but not a scrub either!) numbered to 99 from the very high end product for 99 cents???
It shows the absolute saturation of the market, the ridiculous amount of rookie autos in all products, and the plummeting prices of the high end stuff!!!

drobfan8 · Jan 25, 2014

bradlieus said:
A couple of months ago people were asking $50+ for one of these:

(not my picture)

I got one off ebay a few weeks ago for 99 cents............

An on-card auto of a rookie (not a top rookie, but not a scrub either!) numbered to 99 from the very high end product for 99 cents???
It shows the absolute saturation of the market, the ridiculous amount of rookie autos in all products, and the plummeting prices of the high end stuff!!!

I totally agree 100% with this too.

But don't forget, you can also get some Exquisite rookies for under $10 also, some ok names too.

I think it's because they make all the scrubs now too, whereas in the 90's only the the hyped guys got through. Hell even Steve Nash missed out in 96/97 Flair

Flawless did the right thing, it helped they had two rookie classes to use, but they just put in the top 15 (I think) from each year.

Immaculate, for the price, was mainly garbage except for the huge hits you could get. You can pick up a Kobe Auto Patch for $230 from this high end product. Nuts.

MJ23BULLS · Jan 25, 2014

What is it that's so hard to understand?

EVERY single product released hypes for a few months then drops like crazy never to return to it's hype glory...

It's the same cycle over and over again because the same products get made each year...
Anything that sold well the year before will get made again making the new product hype of last years success...

With less money in the hobby has a whole now, the cycle's don't last as long, so the prices fall even faster...

I don't own a single Panini card, yet I can easily see the trends that happen over and over...

It doesn't take a long to work out trends, if you aren't caught up in the hype...

angpin · Jan 26, 2014

MJ23BULLS said:
What is it that's so hard to understand?

EVERY single product released hypes for a few months then drops like crazy never to return to it's hype glory...

It's the same cycle over and over again because the same products get made each year...
Anything that sold well the year before will get made again making the new product hype of last years success...

With less money in the hobby has a whole now, the cycle's don't last as long, so the prices fall even faster...

I don't own a single Panini card, yet I can easily see the trends that happen over and over...

It doesn't take a long to work out trends, if you aren't caught up in the hype...

Totally understand the initial hype and then prices falling…..but the rate of falling prices and lows Immaculate have reached have really surprised me. I've been collecting for nearly 30 years and I haven't seen such a free fall in prices as dramatic as this ever before.

MJ23BULLS · Jan 26, 2014

angpin said:
Totally understand the initial hype and then prices falling…..but the rate of falling prices and lows Immaculate have reached have really surprised me. I've been collecting for nearly 30 years and I haven't seen such a free fall in prices as dramatic as this ever before.

I have noticed a lot less people are buying in hobby as a whole, so with less people in hobby and the people still in the hobby seem to have less money to spend, they spend more wisely!

Which inturn makes the normal hype cycles a whole lot quicker.

I believe the second release of Fleer Retro was the most obvious case of how people are spending way less, not falling for the hype and that particular cycle was the quickest I have seen...

Immaculate and Flawless prices in free fall mode.

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