Fleer Retro thoughts so far

Basketball said:

Well thank you for letting me know, but I didn't take any offense. Same here, i'm just giving my opinion. I mean, sure I can decide what a PMG is.... what it is to me! I'm not speaking for anybody else but me. If I liked that card for my tastes, I would have bought it a long time ago. Sure it says "Precious Metal Gems".... that's a fact. But to me personally, I don't consider it to be a true one. It's like taking a 1948 Bowman, or any card really, and smacking the words PMG on it. Nothing wrong with the cards though, they're pretty and all, but I like the Retro ones more, and consider it the true PMG. Plus there's the fact that it's a 2012 card..... Ring year. Some don't care, and some do. It means something to me that it's a 2012 which is his first ring year. Just like some people couldn't care less for jersey serial numbered cards, but I do. It's all opinions at the end of the day. That one is mine.

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That's my point. At no point and time did UD take an ordinary card and slap on PMG on it. The card was designed and manufactured solely for that set.

ozballer23 said:

That's my point. At no point and time did UD take an ordinary card and slap on PMG on it. The card was designed and manufactured solely for that set.

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They can copy past sets in my book all they want.... as long as they include new players, then it's all good. Sure some will always be the same, there are so many greats in basketball history that people care about. But then you smack a player like Lebron in the mix and BAM!!! I could understand the arguement if Lebron was in the 90's set....... not to mention a lot of members from the NBA 50 Greatest! You got Jimmer.... plus a few that probably never had a PMG before. There are many sets that look the same, and some look very similar... like LL cards from Exquisite. To me, they mostly look the same, with exceptions of course, such as my favorite year for LL which was 09-10, they look different. If a set's design works and looks good, then why chance it? The only real change you can make, which is the biggest change imo, is add mostly players that never had one before. But then again, collectors won't buy players that had them before? Sure they will! They will want to match them up, I would think. I would, if I liked a particular player that I wanted to collect. Can you imagine if they make them some day to include players like Durant, Dirk, Rose, and all of the great ones. But i'm talking about Retro, not the Skybox...

Basketball said:

They can copy past sets in my book all they want.... as long as they include new players, then it's all good. Sure some will always be the same, there are so many greats in basketball history that people care about. But then you smack a player like Lebron in the mix and BAM!!! I could understand the arguement if Lebron was in the 90's set....... not to mention a lot of members from the NBA 50 Greatest! You got Jimmer.... plus a few that probably never had a PMG before. There are many sets that look the same, and some look very similar... like LL cards from Exquisite. To me, they mostly look the same, with exceptions of course, such as my favorite year for LL which was 09-10, they look different. If a set's design works and looks good, then why chance it? The only real change you can make, which is the biggest change imo, is add mostly players that never had one before. But then again, collectors won't buy players that had them before? Sure they will! They will want to match them up, I would think. I would, if I liked a particular player that I wanted to collect. Can you imagine if they make them some day to include players like Durant, Dirk, Rose, and all of the great ones. But i'm talking about Retro, not the Skybox...

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I thought the LL from that set was base on a previous set.

06-07 and 09-10 LL are based on the same designs.

Basketball said:

You can take any card and smack the words "Precious Metal Gems" on it, but doesn't make it a PMG.... if it don't look like a PMG, smell like a PMG, then chances are it's NOT a PMG....

What you see in Fleer Retro ARE pmg's!

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Your calling a Fleer retro a REAL PMG???
I guess you have never seen a REAL PMG from the 90's...
The retro's are a cheap knock off of the REAL 90's PMG's....

Just about every thing you type about retro contradicts itself.
How can you LOVE a product that is "trying" to copy the exact era you hate?
That simply makes no sense to me.

I would have been all over this product, but the simple fact that every insert is a cheap knock-off of the original's put me off...
I would have loved to get all the new cards in college uniforms to put next the the originals i have,Noyz Boyz,Big men on court,Ultra stars,Court masters...etc
BUT, when you have the originals and put them next to the retro stuff, they are not even close to the color, texture and feel...

Why are the retro cards not embossed? not etched? not made from the same materials? not cut and centered better?

"Remember, it's not the quantity, it's the quality..." Another contradiction!!!!!!

Basketball said:

First of all, we all know about 90's inserts and all the manipulation going around............... no names though, let's keep the scum secret.

Second, was the vintage 1948 Bowman and 1961 Fleer ever has "hot" as the shilled 90's inserts? I don't think so..... BUT they still make remakes of those cards. Why? Because.....

Finally, there's a reason why most people would prefer to watch the remake of the movie "Assult on Precinct 13" rather than the original... I LOVE the new remake and can't sit there and watch the old one. Point is, not everybody likes the same things.... Not to mention the biggest thing here, that LEBRON is NOT in the "originals" but he is in this 2012 Fleer Retro product, in which 2012 is the year of his first RING!!!!! BINGO

There's no need to spread "All Retro sales are fake" or "Retro sucks".............. let people collect what they want, and let people spend their money as they wish! These cards are selling high very early on with no help from shillers! It's not like they're shilled like the 90's have been for years now. You have an opinion, great!!! But no need to spread all this hate for Fleer Retro.

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The sheer amount of contradiction and hypocrisy is unreal.

Let me get this straight. It's ok for you to voice your own opinion about how you think the ENTIRE 90's Jordan market is fake and manipulated but wrong for me to bring up a few shilled Retro auctions? How is that fair? You've been preaching on and on for years now how the entire 90's Jordan market is a scam. You took a step further and badmouthed my name and business ethics everywhere just because you didn't like the cards I collected and sold. With zero proof to back up your false accusations. You STILL do! That's what you've been doing to me since the very first time I stepped into BO. Now I point out some obvious re-listed and shilled Retro auctions in a Retro thread and you're telling me there's no need to spread the hate for the product? Come on bro... at least I bring proof and solid evidence to show people. And I never once claimed "ALL" Retro sales are fake. I never use the word ALL or NEVER because that in itself is usually a lie. You obviously do that very well.

Also, I don't hate or feel "threatened" by the retros. I've voiced out that this product is great for the hobby as it's making INSERTS the hottest hits. Taking a step away from the usual Auto Patch cards which have over-saturated the market for years now. Also, 90's collectors are loving the buzz too. It's bringing that much more attention, demand and value to the originals. And do you not think I can pick up a Retro PMG Red or Blue if I wanted to? I have the funds to hit any one of those BIN listing right now. So you are very wrong when you claim I am jealous or feel threatened by the Retros. That is just absurd. High End 90's collectors spend tens of thousands of dollars on a single card. These Retro's are a bargain in comparison.

And I thought you were a true collector? You're using a movie remake as an analogy? Terrible. If you're a true knowledgeable collector, you will know that when it comes to collectibles of ANY sort, it's the ORIGINALS and 1st PRINTS that are worth the most and most sought after. It's never the remakes, re-prints, mimics, etc. So you can have your own personal preference LIKING the newer stuff, but when it comes to how rare, valuable, sought after and coveted they are... you can never beat the originals almost always. Just use your own 1948 Bowman example. There have been plenty of remakes like you said correct? Have ANY of them been worth or sought after more than the originals? Exactly.

I just can't get over the fact that you have hated Precious Metal Gems all your life and put them down but in LOVE with the Retro PMG's because they're not from the 90's and you "supposedly" own a few cases. You do know they look almost IDENTICAL to the originals? But you still claim the originals are ugly and weak and not even worth $500 bucks for the Jordan. On the other hand, these Retro PMG's are $20k+ cards according to you because they're newer and somehow look way better. My Good Lord!

Boy do I get quotted a lot!

I actually answered this on page # 20 in this thread, the second post I made to the top....

I was actually at the National Convetion this year and saw many PMG's from the 90's and I couldn't believe my eyes.... they sucked! I don't say that to be mean, but I was so shocked because I have heard so much hype about these, so when I saw tons and tons of them at the show, it couldn't believe how plain and boring they looked. Not sure why these Retro's look better, but they do! Hold both versions in your hands and I bet you will see the difference! Or maybe the old ones are your taste, and the new ones are mine! Can that really be!? But one thing is for sure though, you will NOT see Lebron in the "originals". Nor will you see all the members of the NBA's 50 Greatest list, or at least not as many as in the Retro. Then you have Jimmer who I think has a future in the NBA. At the end of the day, we're in 2012 with Lebron, and the "originals" were back then with those players............ imo, you gotta like a player to actually collect him, no? So you can't really saw A is better than B, and vise versa. You gotta like the player on the card. Sure Babe Ruth was great, and Bill Russell was great, but I don't collect them die hard. The NBA is worldwide these days, as the NBA has done a great job marketing..... so it = more collectors!! Who want cards from today, not yesterday... for the most part.

As far as feeling cards? i'm not one to feel cards........... lol I actually didn't even put a finger print on my PMG's before I put them in magnetic holders. I just held it carefully from the edges and put it right in, so I really couldn't care less about the feel, nor do I care to test them, and nor do I think it matters either way. I won't be opened cases, specially graded cases just to touch and sleep with my cards No hard intended.

I like the newer ones better, that's the end of that. I'm sure we can move on.... everybody has their taste in cards. You like the old ones better, AWESOME!!! Congrats!! You must like the players back then..... I do too like the players from back then, but i'd rather collect current players. Now if we're talking GU and autos, then I like my HOFers/NBA 50 Greats, for the most part..... I started to collect modern GU/autos when the Silhouettes came out. Another set I love....... We all like different hings, and that's great.

Let's see if I can get quotted another 20 times now

hegotgame15 said:

Your calling a Fleer retro a REAL PMG???
I guess you have never seen a REAL PMG from the 90's...
The retro's are a cheap knock off of the REAL 90's PMG's....

Just about every thing you type about retro contradicts itself.
How can you LOVE a product that is "trying" to copy the exact era you hate?
That simply makes no sense to me.

I would have been all over this product, but the simple fact that every insert is a cheap knock-off of the original's put me off...
I would have loved to get all the new cards in college uniforms to put next the the originals i have,Noyz Boyz,Big men on court,Ultra stars,Court masters...etc
BUT, when you have the originals and put them next to the retro stuff, they are not even close to the color, texture and feel...

Why are the retro cards not embossed? not etched? not made from the same materials? not cut and centered better?

"Remember, it's not the quantity, it's the quality..." Another contradiction!!!!!!

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Basketball said:

You can take any card and smack the words "Precious Metal Gems" on it, but doesn't make it a PMG.... if it don't look like a PMG, smell like a PMG, then chances are it's NOT a PMG....

What you see in Fleer Retro ARE pmg's!

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Wait wait... you HATE how PMG's look. That's what you've been saying for years now. You're the one who couldn't understand how an ugly looking insert like Precious Metal Gems can sell for $10k dollars. Now you're saying the Retro PMG's are true PMG's and worth a lot because they are the closest thing to the originals? They look, smell and feel like original PMG's so you consider these the real deal? How can you still hate and think the originals are worthless and believe the remakes are a trillion times better and actually worth the money these shilled auctions ended at? Wow.


Just saying. You turn a blind eye on shilled Retro PMG auctions that are obvious to anyone, but yell fraud and fake on a legit legendary 90's insert selling for over $18k with proof all around the sale. Class Act!

Basketball said:

If you count that as a Lebron PMG, then bless your soul................ lol

I'm full aware of that card, but...............

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Lolololol

I have not read this thread at all so I might be asking a question already posted previously. What kind of finish do the pmgs have compared to original pmgs?? Edges and chipping etc??

spurlec said:

I have not read this thread at all so I might be asking a question already posted previously. What kind of finish do the pmgs have compared to original pmgs?? Edges and chipping etc??

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The ORIGINAL 90's PMG's are ETCHED Holo-Foils. Easily chipped and fragile.

The Retro PMG's are much like Black Diamond cards. Non-Etched and don't chip like the originals do. They have a very different feel when you see them side by side. It almost feels like there's a coat of gloss over the Retro PMG's whereas the originals were pure holo-foils in raw form.

I haven't had a 90's one in hand but I can say I freakin love my KG 08-09 one and hope to get a Green one day. Also hope to get a Retro PMG to check them out in person too. But to say the Lebron PMG is not actually a PMG is laugh out loud smfh batshit insane.

the new 2012 pmgs look pretty freakin sweet!
and one cant be faulted for thinking that they are identical to the originals.
but i think you should have the two side by side before you can comment

hector said:

the new 2012 pmgs look pretty freakin sweet!
and one cant be faulted for thinking that they are identical to the originals.
but i think you should have the two side by side before you can comment

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I have seen them both side by side in person, because the retro aren't etched, the surface dosen't have the same eye appeal.
BUT!!!! Don't get me wrong the retro PMG's DO look ok,probably the best looking cards from retro, just not as good as the originals!

Rare23Air83 said:

The ORIGINAL 90's PMG's are ETCHED Holo-Foils. Easily chipped and fragile.

The Retro PMG's are much like Black Diamond cards. Non-Etched and don't chip like the originals do. They have a very different feel when you see them side by side. It almost feels like there's a coat of gloss over the Retro PMG's whereas the originals were pure holo-foils in raw form.

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Carefull! if you say "feel" some moron might take that to be your rubbing the card between your ass cheeks checking the surface!

Wow, I love reading this thread when I'm having a crappy day for a good laugh and pick me up

well, i just checked my old 97-98 pmg to the new 2012 pmg and it is like day and night, as much as i love the new ones - they suck ass when compared!
felt really disappointed.
what a sh!t day, shouldnt have checked

Lol they are just cards, not gonna let a bad design ruin my day

they are just cards!!!!???
HOW!
DARE YOU!

hector said:

they are just cards!!!!???
HOW!
DARE YOU!

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Haha that's what I said to the wife too lol