Season cut short by greed...

[hairyangryfella]

Load of crap. It is as impossible in basketball for those professional players to replaced as it is in any other sport. I could say it would be easier to replace a baseball player because their level of fitness would no where near that in other sports, well the ones who aint on steroids anyway. Plus how many times do you see baseballers with beer guts.

You cannot compare professional sport/entertainment industry to any normal industry. It is specifically structured so that people are paid a proportion of revenue brought in, whether you are a professional athlete or recording artist. Why do you think female athletes are not paid anywhere near what their male counterparts are.......... because they don't bring in the $$$. In a perfect world the doctors, police and firemen of this world would be the highest paid, but thats not the way it is so deal with it.

The NFL also get a set % of revenue, which is more than double that of the NBA, yet you are not attacking them. Also the NFL commissioner slashed his salary from $10mill to $1 during the lockout/negotitations, David Stern is still sitting pretty on his $40-$50mill salary........ yet you are calling the players greedy...... give me a break.

Your arguement is fundamentally flawed and based on your opinion with no material facts to back it up. Its both parties fault we are in this mess and both parties are being equally greedy.

I disagree on the bold part. Would you be able to find enough players to run at each other, beat each other up, and be brave/good enough to play football? Would you be able to find someone who can throw a baseball hard/fast enough to beat a batter, and someone with the coordination enough to hit the ball?
Fundamentally basketball is just putting a ball in a goal. It is not that hard.

However I do agree with you on the other points, and while Stern is pretty much a #### himself, the main issue I have is with the players trying to get sympathy by saying 'let us play' WHEN THEY HAVE THE CHOICE TO.
That is my beef, the rest got a bit sidetracked.

 

[Heafy83]

I disagree on the bold part. Would you be able to find enough players to run at each other, beat each other up, and be brave/good enough to play football? Would you be able to find someone who can throw a baseball hard/fast enough to beat a batter, and someone with the coordination enough to hit the ball?
Fundamentally basketball is just putting a ball in a goal. It is not that hard.
However I do agree with you on the other points, and while Stern is pretty much a #### himself, the main issue I have is with the players trying to get sympathy by saying 'let us play' WHEN THEY HAVE THE CHOICE TO.
That is my beef, the rest got a bit sidetracked.

Once again your opinion..... thats it.

Don't forget the owners locked the players out and forced them out, not the other way around. The owners also have a choice. The players have already conceeded ground in dropping from 57% to 53% this means they are willing to drop the % of what they can earn from the previous CBA which was 57%. How is that asking for more money?

 

[A_Iverson_I]

Ok maybe I'm going too deep with the 'game can still happen' bit - but I can assure you that it'd be a lot easier to replace basketball players than those in other sports.
And they are wanting MORE money. They want more than they're currently getting and more than they're being offered. In what other situation do the 'employees' have a right to over 50% of the revenues..? They are making a mint. They want more. They are being exceptionally greedy IMO.

Sorry but I am clueless here...... in your world is 53 more than 57? Really..... all you're saying is that they're wanting more but not backing it up with any facts.

I disagree on the bold part. Would you be able to find enough players to run at each other, beat each other up, and be brave/good enough to play football? Would you be able to find someone who can throw a baseball hard/fast enough to beat a batter, and someone with the coordination enough to hit the ball?
Fundamentally basketball is just putting a ball in a goal. It is not that hard.

However I do agree with you on the other points, and while Stern is pretty much a #### himself, the main issue I have is with the players trying to get sympathy by saying 'let us play' WHEN THEY HAVE THE CHOICE TO.
That is my beef, the rest got a bit sidetracked.

If that's what you truly think then you truly don't know basketball.

 

[Diggaz TC]

They are wanting a system that pays them an average salary of 5.1 million this year and by the end of the 5th year of the CBA will have the average salary at 7.1 million. That's trying to pay themselves a significant increase considering what the American economy has been of late!

Saying we'll drop our share of BRI from 57% to 53% is all well and good, however, it isn't as simple as that when there are so many other issues on the table and both parties are push-and-pulling the final details....when they start conceding in one area they start requesting more allowances in another.

 

[Heafy83]

They are wanting a system that pays them an average salary of 5.1 million this year and by the end of the 5th year of the CBA will have the average salary at 7.1 million. That's trying to pay themselves a significant increase considering what the American economy has been of late!

No its not its just back ending a contract. Paying less of the contract now and just receiving more later. $50mill is $50mill whether you pay it out $10mill a year over 5 years or $5mill in the first two years and the remainder over the last 3.

The American economy may be sufferring but the NBA still recorded record revenue and viewing audiences. If they are in such a dire situation why hasn't Mr Stern taken a pay cut?

 

[Diggaz TC]

Mr Stern hasn't gotten a pay rise in some years and he isn't accepting any paychecks during the lockout either.

And the avg up from 5.1 to 7.1 isn't from back ending contracts. It's the overall avg player salary. In any one year players will be at various points in their contract, some 1st years, some in their backloaded 5th year. The 7.1 million avg for 5 years time was not counting everyone in the 5th year of their backloaded contract, it was the average league salary league wide.

 

[Heafy83]

Mr Stern hasn't gotten a pay rise in some years and he isn't accepting any paychecks during the lockout either.

And nor should he. He's already on $40mill+ a year. Its a bit ironic him crying poor when he is on that sort of money

 

[Diggaz TC]

And nor should he. He's already on $40mill+ a year. Its a bit ironic him crying poor when he is on that sort of money

OK, conversation over. Stern is on less than $10 mil a year. Not sure where you are getting any of your info.

---------- Post added 12-10-2011 at 11:07 AM ----------

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/david-stern-salary-nba-commissioner_n_919074.html

 

[A_Iverson_I]

They are wanting a system that pays them an average salary of 5.1 million this year and by the end of the 5th year of the CBA will have the average salary at 7.1 million. That's trying to pay themselves a significant increase considering what the American economy has been of late!

Saying we'll drop our share of BRI from 57% to 53% is all well and good, however, it isn't as simple as that when there are so many other issues on the table and both parties are push-and-pulling the final details....when they start conceding in one area they start requesting more allowances in another.

Finally someone put some info behind it. However, if the revenue goes UP then of course their average salary should; but anyway you look at it they won't get any more than 53% or whatever it is they end up agreeing on; portions of players salaries are kept in escrow to help against that happening.

 

[Heafy83]

OK, conversation over. Stern is on less than $10 mil a year. Not sure where you are getting any of your info.

---------- Post added 12-10-2011 at 11:07 AM ----------

David Stern Salary: Sources Say NBA Commissioner Paid Less Than Roger Goodell, Bud Selig

It was reported during the finals series last year on ESPN he was on $40mill a year when you include bonuses etc etc........ just saying....... conversation over

EDIT: Also for future refernce http://articles.businessinsider.com...a-commissioner-lockout-nba-owners-and-players

seems no one know what the guy gets. Thats absurd!!!!

 

[Diggaz TC]

It was reported during the finals series last year on ESPN he was on $40mill a year when you include bonuses etc etc........ just saying....... conversation over

Well that was bad reporting. I listened to a Bill Simmons podcast recently where he interviewed David Stern and he asked him upfront about the rumours of his salary being 20+ million. Stern laughed and said it was significantly less than $20 million. Then he asked $15 million and he said less again. I don't know about the bonuses in his contract. I know that ratings are up but surely it would be hard for him to justify any bonuses when he is reporting at the same time that league wide, teams made a 300 million loss. A report of 40 million seems ludicrous when Stern himself is laughing off suggestions of it being higher than 15 million.

 

[Heafy83]

Well that was bad reporting. I listened to a Bill Simmons podcast recently where he interviewed David Stern and he asked him upfront about the rumours of his salary being 20+ million. Stern laughed and said it was significantly less than $20 million. Then he asked $15 million and he said less again. I don't know about the bonuses in his contract. I know that ratings are up but surely it would be hard for him to justify any bonuses when he is reporting at the same time that league wide, teams made a 300 million loss. A report of 40 million seems ludicrous when Stern himself is laughing off suggestions of it being higher than 15 million.

Of course he is going to laugh it off. There is no way he will reveal what he is on especially since its such a secret. If it was that low why not just publish it. Its obviously quite high otherwise he'd have nothing to hide.

 

[hairyangryfella]

Ok I'm putting my hand up. I have a lack of knowledge on the area and I guess I'm ignorant. After seeing this post on BO:

The previous contract between the owners and players ended on June 30th 2011. That contract split BRI (basketball related income) 57% to the players and 43% to the owners.

The owners demanded 50-50 split in a new contract which was supposed to start on July 1st 2011.

The players refused the 7% paycut.

The owners locked out the players on July 1st 2011.

The players are willing to take a pay cut down to 53%, a 4% pay cut from their previous contract.

The owners refuse that compromise and insist on 50-50, a 7% paycut to the players.

Until someone explains to me why the owners insist on the 7% pay cut to the players, I don't see how this is anyone's fault but the owners.

And it's amazing how much sports news someone can watch and not get an answer to that essential question.

and this article on Yahoo:

Stern ducks, lets NBA players take hit - NBA - Yahoo! Sports


I get that it's more the owners fault than the players. However the 'let us play' thing still really bugs me because they could if they truly wanted to.

Also, I know and love basketball, but fundamentally, basketball IS easier to play than the other major US sports... As mentioned before - pick any bum off the street to try to a) throw an accurate pass to a receiver b) hit a fastball successfully c) shoot a puck at a goal while skating and d) shoot a ball through a hoop - I guarantee that they will have the most success with the latter!

 

[sgt_pepper]

/\/\ every sport, fundamentally, is very simple.
cant see the difference between throwing an accurate pass and shooting an accurate basket. you really think if you put an average joe on the court with NBA players, hed be able to 'chuck the ball in the hoop'? i honestly think hed have real troubles getting a single basket...just like hitting a fastball or throwing/catching a pass.

 

[hairyangryfella]

/\/\ every sport, fundamentally, is very simple.
cant see the difference between throwing an accurate pass and shooting an accurate basket. you really think if you put an average joe on the court with NBA players, hed be able to 'chuck the ball in the hoop'? i honestly think hed have real troubles getting a single basket...just like hitting a fastball or throwing/catching a pass.

Have you ever thrown a football? Let alone with people trying to chase you down, or bat the ball away..?

All I've ever been saying here is that the players should be careful because they could be replaced more easily. Not that it'll happen, and because they need the stars, but basketball is not that hard a game to play... so to get paid MEGA BUCKS to play it is fantastic. Yet they're taking it for granted...

 

[Foolish]

Load of crap. It is as impossible in basketball for those professional players to replaced as it is in any other sport. I could say it would be easier to replace a baseball player because their level of fitness would no where near that in other sports, well the ones who aint on steroids anyway. Plus how many times do you see baseballers with beer guts.

You cannot compare professional sport/entertainment industry to any normal industry. It is specifically structured so that people are paid a proportion of revenue brought in, whether you are a professional athlete or recording artist. Why do you think female athletes are not paid anywhere near what their male counterparts are.......... because they don't bring in the $$$. In a perfect world the doctors, police and firemen of this world would be the highest paid, but thats not the way it is so deal with it.

The NFL also get a set % of revenue, which is more than double that of the NBA, yet you are not attacking them. Also the NFL commissioner slashed his salary from $10mill to $1 during the lockout/negotitations, David Stern is still sitting pretty on his $40-$50mill salary........ yet you are calling the players greedy...... give me a break.

Your arguement is fundamentally flawed and based on your opinion with no material facts to back it up. Its both parties fault we are in this mess and both parties are being equally greedy.

You do not think these players could be replaced by other players? impossible is a very strong word which I think you are wrong.

I do think with I dont know but lets say 20 billion people in the world you are saying they couldnt find another 300 people to fill those spots?

And also you're point on the differences in occupations makes me laugh, you are right its not the way it is but getting into an debate of sports stars who get paid far more then those occupations is not worth my time is what my message I was trying to convey. You are obviously more passionate and care more about these sport stars than I do.

 

[Heafy83]

You do not think these players could be replaced by other players? impossible is a very strong word which I think you are wrong.
I do think with I dont know but lets say 20 billion people in the world you are saying they couldnt find another 300 people to fill those spots?

And also you're point on the differences in occupations makes me laugh, you are right its not the way it is but getting into an debate of sports stars who get paid far more then those occupations is not worth my time is what my message I was trying to convey. You are obviously more passionate and care more about these sport stars than I do.

Not with the skill etc current players have. You can't replace the Lebrons etc of this world. Sure you can pull out any Joe Blow in to play but skill level will drop dramatically and so will the spectical so then revenues etc will do the same.

In terms of the occupational difference I am of the same opinion as well. Its not worth the time to argue it because its not right the way it works now but that aint going to change so might as well move on. I'd much rather have the doctors etc earning more than an athlete but there you go.

EDIT: you do know there is only 7bill people in the world?

 

[Jaames]

Almost every single sport is easy to play, to play it well is another story all together.

 

[Diggaz TC]

lol, 20 billion....seems to be the theme of the thread, people plucking numbers from who knows where.

1) Yes, they could pluck another 300 players from somewhere. No, they would not be anywhere near the level of the current NBA players.

2) I don't think the NBA would simply be able to just replace the other players anyway...not when a union is involved. If it was that simple wouldn't QANTAS just replace all the workers that keep striking at the moment?

 

[Foolish]

lol the 20 billion was just a rough ballpark figure i through that out there geez hahhahah hence the "lets just say"

as for the plucking out of anyhwere another 300 players who is to say that the current players are the best in world? surely they have worked hard and deserve a spot but given the chance to some others , really there is a lot of undiscovered talent you would be suprised what they might find.

Same goes when people stay in the league for years blocking up and coming new talent from a place in the starting line up or even getting on a team.