Season cut short by greed...

[ace e]

None of this debate will solve the problem, lets just all agree we miss the NBA games and move on.

 

[lukesicari]

Monday's cancellations total exactly 100 games and include such early marquee matchups as Chicago at Dallas on Nov. 1 in the first season opener between the reigning MVP (Derrick Rose) and reigning Finals MVP (Dirk Nowitzki) since 2002. LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and the rest of the Miami Heat, beaten in six games by Nowitzki's Mavericks in the Finals in June, were scheduled to open their season Nov. 2 at Madison Square Garden against the New York Knicks' star duo of Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire.

 

[Quicksilver]

AndrewMBogut Andrew Bogut
4 all the illinformed ppl re @NBA lockout:This is an OWNER IMPOSED LOCKOUT/STRIKE.We, the players,did not go on Strike,we were put on strike

AndrewMBogut Andrew Bogut
We understand owners have to make $ and that is what its all come down too. We just want to play. The following ppl are the 1s who get hurt:

AndrewMBogut Andrew Bogut
Ticket ushers, local bars/clubs/food, police officers, security, in arena food and drink, hotels,local small businesses,should I keep going?

And lets not forget the fans who make the NBA what it is today! LET US PLAY!!! #standunited
AndrewMBogut Andrew Bogut
Anyway im going to keep training everyday and doing what I love...whatever happens will take care of it self in due time.

 

[Tricolour]

Even though the players are saying, "we just want to play" and stuff like that, im pretty sure if they really just wanted to play they would have taken the deal offered to them. They are paid HEAPS already. I'd love to know what the average salary is for an NBA player

 

[ooneil]

Average salary for an NBA player is 3.4 million.

League minimum is just under $500K.

Interesting stat - 75% of NBA and NFL players are broke within 4 years or leaving their respective league.

 

[SpriteAllNight33]

Players need to wait this out ... They make those owners all of that money. The people come to see Kobe ... Would they sell out / have so many celebs without him ? Nope. Same with Lebron and Wade. Some other teams and players too. They earn that money. Yes It truely sucks that we will miss watching games ... Just makes me shake my head. BUT, man those players gotta get their money. I'd tell them wait It out as long as possible. It'll be worth It In the long run. ... But we'll obviously see what happens. I really hope the season still goes on.

 

[lilreddevil]

Players need to wait this out ... They make those owners all of that money. The people come to see Kobe ... Would they sell out / have so many celebs without him ? Nope. Same with Lebron and Wade. Some other teams and players too. They earn that money. Yes It truely sucks that we will miss watching games ... Just makes me shake my head. BUT, man those players gotta get their money. I'd tell them wait It out as long as possible. It'll be worth It In the long run. ... But we'll obviously see what happens. I really hope the season still goes on.

You what the funny thing is? Without the owners, players wouldn't get paid anyway. So if you keep going on like this, asking for unsustainable wage increases every decade, remember how much more they got paid after the last season we lost, you're going to lose quality owners and then franchises. What are you gonna do now Lebron? Also whoever said Lebron can go set up his own league, stupidest idea. Who's gonna pay him? And who's going to pay the other players to play with him? Who's gonna play with Lebron with no money on offer. Cool idea

This also sounds familiar in Australia right now. Those Qantas staff asking for more pay increases even after being the most highly paid in Australia and almost in the world. Sometimes people don't know how good it is when they're at the top. Maybe when Qantas crumbles after passengers get fed up with this strike bull**** and everyone loses their jobs, that's when the greedy ****s get a taste of their own medicine.

 

[Cebru]

More on the owners side personally, most are losing money. Between the players and owners, only the players are garaunteed to profit, so what if they don't profit by quite as much as they are used to in order to keep the league alive, still beats working in most other industries, by far. Hell, would any of us that play ball be pissing and moaning about earning even $500,000 to play the game we love for a living? Hardly. Manage your money better. Vented.

 

[Jerald]

No matter how we look at it, it just plain greed from both players and owners.

 

[drsma1]

Ok how about I put it as 'careers are generally shorter in other sports because the extreme wear and tear the players suffer'.
Anybody CAN put a ball in a hoop - just at differing levels of skill.
Have you ever thrown a pitch? I have and it's damn hard and sore.
Have you ever played gridiron? I have and I was too cowardly for it.
Have you ever shot a puck? I've tried... skating is hard enough but then to add in puck control and shooting? Get out of here...

Sorry hairy...gotta disagree with you on this one...could you shoot 90% from the line, under pressure? 45% from 3pt with a 6'8" guy in your face? Dunk over a 300lb, 7' lump?.....I dont know you personally, but I'm guessing no.

Bball is just as specialised as any other pro sport - and the players deserve what they get paid, even if it seems extreme. Theres probably 50 million people in the world that play basketball at some level - these are the top 300. Theres probably 50 million people employed in the IT industry around the world too - I'd bet the highest paid 300 people in that industry would be on more than the ave, nba salary - Its all relative.

The players deserve the lions share of the profit - if the owners are losing money because they cant run a business properly - or are paying $35m a year in interest because they had to borrow $500m in the first place to buy a team, thats not the players fault.

But as everyone else has said - sort it out already!


PS - you want an unspecialised sport...hows rugby!?!? Any knuckle head can grab a ball and run!

 

[Foolish]

You what the funny thing is? Without the owners, players wouldn't get paid anyway. So if you keep going on like this, asking for unsustainable wage increases every decade, remember how much more they got paid after the last season we lost, you're going to lose quality owners and then franchises. What are you gonna do now Lebron? Also whoever said Lebron can go set up his own league, stupidest idea. Who's gonna pay him? And who's going to pay the other players to play with him? Who's gonna play with Lebron with no money on offer. Cool idea

This also sounds familiar in Australia right now. Those Qantas staff asking for more pay increases even after being the most highly paid in Australia and almost in the world. Sometimes people don't know how good it is when they're at the top. Maybe when Qantas crumbles after passengers get fed up with this strike bull**** and everyone loses their jobs, that's when the greedy ****s get a taste of their own medicine.

Funny thing is...... the people in jobs which actually matter like doctors, firemen, policemen, ambos etc wouldnt even get paid near the same amount in their whole life time as these sport stars

That kind of puts it in all into perspective

Just goes to show how the world is upside down!

So i couldnt care less about these players owners or any of this bs

 

[nino_013]

Im gonna have to say that both sides are to blame...
Owners want to ensure that they profit every year regardless... Really???
What kind of dilusional business owner thinks that they can guarantee themselves profit every year?
So if your boss asks you to take a pay cut because hes not making any money, would you be happy lining his pocket?
Regardless of their poor business decisions (nobody forces owners to make ludicrous offers to players. ie Rashard Lewis)
Thats their choice. They should deal with it.

 

[lapsico]

I put more blame on the owners since they are the ones offering those stupid contracts to medium talented players if they didn't do that then they might be better placed to make some money on there teams.

 

[supertoad]

Sounds like power plays between 2 stubborn sides. That's going to be hard to resolve

 

[A_Iverson_I]

Wow I can't believe some of the dribble I'm reading in here.... basketball NOT a specialised sport!? Players are mainly to blame!? The players want to make MORE money!??

Firstly..... as others have pointed out; basketball IS a specialised sport. IMO it's probably one of the most specialised (depending on position); I'd also say playing basketball requires a better IQ than a lot of other sports. I don't watch the other sports but relatively speaking I don't see how you can say Baseball and NFL are MORE specialsed than basketball!? NFL isn't much more than getting the ball to a guy and then avoiding the people trying to tackle you so you can run with it past a line.... baseball a good portion of the time you're standing around doing nothing; your only skills you need are being able to run fast, throw a baseball and hit a baseball with a bat. Yes, not anybody can do the latter two as well as they can, but that's why I'm speaking relatively as I believe there is far more skill involved in playing basketball.

Secondly...... IMHO the OWNERS are 75% to blame for this. YES, SOME owners of small markets teams have lost money (though the players have even disputed that not all revenue was calculated into that) and YES this IS a business. The players understand that and have SO FAR conceded 4% of what they're currently getting (so not sure how they WANT to make MORE money - when I went to school I learned that 53% is LESS than 57%. I think they have also agreed to lessen the length of guaranteed contracts, though not to the lengths the owners want them shortened to.

I was reading an article the other day and it was saying something like sure, on the face of things it looks like the owners have made a lot of concessions; sure, but they're not concessions at all when you start out from CRAZY TOWN. The article was pointing out that if you go into a dealership and offer $25 for a $300k Mercedes and then get told NO; you then up your offer to $25k... are you REALLY making a concession!? NO... because you're coming from crazy town! The owners purposely started off with a TON of stupid illogical demands and now that they have backed off on a few of them they are trying to make it look like they are the ones making all the concessions when in fact it is the PLAYERS that are making them.

Sure..... it should be the players making some concessions seeing as the owners reportedly have lost $300M in revenue collectively last year; that's why the players have dropped down to 53% as well as made other concessions. The owners are just playing hardball and are wanting too many changes their way.

Also...... it's NOT 100% the players fault that some owners are losing money, this is a BUSINESS as I pointed out above and if you make unwise business decisions you have to live with the consequences. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads to sign all these bad contracts - yes, another team may sign them if you don't and you may look like you're not trying to remain competitive, but really, if the player was that good to begin with you wouldn't end up with all these bad contracts. Quit your whining owners..... nuff said!

Also sick of the talk of the players making such and such money so they should be happy to play and just shut up....... as I have said numerous times before, YES they make good money, but they deserve it. Why should they be happy with $x amount when they should be getting $xx amount.... should they be happy and take it up the a** from the owners just cause they already make sh*tloads? "Sure owners... WE are the reason there is so much revenue, but we make millions already so you guys can have the rest." Don't make out that you wouldn't do the same thing if you were them!!

Now..... it's NOT all the owners fault, that's why I said 75% their fault. Yes, the players should be happy with a 50/50 split.... seems fair to me. However, let it be known the players were never officially offered 50%, so from a bargaining stand-point I don't blame them from rejecting it, as they be seen as weak.

The AFL should be proud, but lets be honest ytou cant compare a 100k MCG to a 30k NBA stadium. Ofcourse we will average more. But NBA is way more profitable because stadium deal are better, tv, etc. Though afl is improving in all aspects. But supply and demand means NBA get away with charging more per ticket. Afl only get ridiculous prices for finals and a handful of blockbusters.

I don't go to AFL games because I despise the sport so I don't know how much ticket prices are, however I think a MASSIVE reason the AFL has a higher average attendance is because the average ticket price is probably MAJORLY cheaper than NBA ticket prices.

both leagues should be very proud of the product that they produce for the public, and whilst I understand it is a negotiation both should also need a serious amount of work when it comes to player/league/owner disputes... surely these things can be settled further in advance than leaving it to the last minute as both leagues have?? very annoying for us the consumer

I believe they have been speaking about it for like 2 years now, but of course nothing really happens until "crunch time" as that's when the chips are on the table.

You what the funny thing is? Without the owners, players wouldn't get paid anyway. So if you keep going on like this, asking for unsustainable wage increases every decade, remember how much more they got paid after the last season we lost, you're going to lose quality owners and then franchises. What are you gonna do now Lebron? Also whoever said Lebron can go set up his own league, stupidest idea. Who's gonna pay him? And who's going to pay the other players to play with him? Who's gonna play with Lebron with no money on offer. Cool idea

This also sounds familiar in Australia right now. Those Qantas staff asking for more pay increases even after being the most highly paid in Australia and almost in the world. Sometimes people don't know how good it is when they're at the top. Maybe when Qantas crumbles after passengers get fed up with this strike bull**** and everyone loses their jobs, that's when the greedy ****s get a taste of their own medicine.

I get the point you're trying to make..... but don't 100% agree. It wouldn't be too hard for the players to organise another league, someone to run it etc etc etc and share the revenue split up....... you're making it sound like the owners can't be replaced, when it's the other way around.

 

[Cebru]

It would take the average Australian approximately 63 years to earn the average one year NBA salary, that's a long time..

 

[hairyangryfella]

Wow I can't believe some of the dribble I'm reading in here.... basketball NOT a specialised sport!? Players are mainly to blame!? The players want to make MORE money!??

Firstly..... as others have pointed out; basketball IS a specialised sport. IMO it's probably one of the most specialised (depending on position); I'd also say playing basketball requires a better IQ than a lot of other sports. I don't watch the other sports but relatively speaking I don't see how you can say Baseball and NFL are MORE specialsed than basketball!? NFL isn't much more than getting the ball to a guy and then avoiding the people trying to tackle you so you can run with it past a line.... baseball a good portion of the time you're standing around doing nothing; your only skills you need are being able to run fast, throw a baseball and hit a baseball with a bat. Yes, not anybody can do the latter two as well as they can, but that's why I'm speaking relatively as I believe there is far more skill involved in playing basketball.

I don't quite agree.
As I've said - it takes skill and there are varying degrees of skill, but ultimately they all do the same thing - and are therefore replaceable. Obviously if you replace stars with scrubs it's nowhere near as enticing or good, but the game can still happen.
You take other sports players out of their games and you won't be able to fill them with joe average... it would be a disaster.
So my point is that they don't necessarily deserve the huge mega money that a) they're already on and b) are wanting more of...

A more fair way to do it would be to tier the contracts so the mega stars earn in one bracket, the semi stars another etc etc. That way absolute losers like Rashard Lewis wouldn't be on enough to make you sick, and there'd in theory be more for everyone to share. But then someone was stupid enough to give him that much in the beginning...

How about instead of 'let us play' they spend time working out how to share their incomes so that it's fair for everyone?

 

[A_Iverson_I]

I don't quite agree.
As I've said - it takes skill and there are varying degrees of skill, but ultimately they all do the same thing - and are therefore replaceable. Obviously if you replace stars with scrubs it's nowhere near as enticing or good, but the game can still happen.
You take other sports players out of their games and you won't be able to fill them with joe average... it would be a disaster.
So my point is that they don't necessarily deserve the huge mega money that a) they're already on and b) are wanting more of...

A more fair way to do it would be to tier the contracts so the mega stars earn in one bracket, the semi stars another etc etc. That way absolute losers like Rashard Lewis wouldn't be on enough to make you sick, and there'd in theory be more for everyone to share. But then someone was stupid enough to give him that much in the beginning...

How about instead of 'let us play' they spend time working out how to share their incomes so that it's fair for everyone?

The game can "still happen" with any sport...... not quite sure what basis you have behind your argument there.

Also..... not quite sure why you keep suggesting they are wanting MORE money!? As I said in my post they have already come DOWN from 57% to 53%.

 

[hairyangryfella]

The game can "still happen" with any sport...... not quite sure what basis you have behind your argument there.

Also..... not quite sure why you keep suggesting they are wanting MORE money!? As I said in my post they have already come DOWN from 57% to 53%.

Ok maybe I'm going too deep with the 'game can still happen' bit - but I can assure you that it'd be a lot easier to replace basketball players than those in other sports.
And they are wanting MORE money. They want more than they're currently getting and more than they're being offered. In what other situation do the 'employees' have a right to over 50% of the revenues..? They are making a mint. They want more. They are being exceptionally greedy IMO.

 

[Heafy83]

Ok maybe I'm going too deep with the 'game can still happen' bit - but I can assure you that it'd be a lot easier to replace basketball players than those in other sports. And they are wanting MORE money. They want more than they're currently getting and more than they're being offered. In what other situation do the 'employees' have a right to over 50% of the revenues..? They are making a mint. They want more. They are being exceptionally greedy IMO.

Load of crap. It is as impossible in basketball for those professional players to replaced as it is in any other sport. I could say it would be easier to replace a baseball player because their level of fitness would no where near that in other sports, well the ones who aint on steroids anyway. Plus how many times do you see baseballers with beer guts.

You cannot compare professional sport/entertainment industry to any normal industry. It is specifically structured so that people are paid a proportion of revenue brought in, whether you are a professional athlete or recording artist. Why do you think female athletes are not paid anywhere near what their male counterparts are.......... because they don't bring in the $$$. In a perfect world the doctors, police and firemen of this world would be the highest paid, but thats not the way it is so deal with it.

The NFL also get a set % of revenue, which is more than double that of the NBA, yet you are not attacking them. Also the NFL commissioner slashed his salary from $10mill to $1 during the lockout/negotitations, David Stern is still sitting pretty on his $40-$50mill salary........ yet you are calling the players greedy...... give me a break.

Your arguement is fundamentally flawed and based on your opinion with no material facts to back it up. Its both parties fault we are in this mess and both parties are being equally greedy.