The Official LA LAKERS thread!!
- Thread starter Allstar cards inc
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traderman33
cardsM0NGER
yeah, i'd like to hear it.
personally i think Kobe has the right to be argued right up there with Magic and Kareem.
Magic was great but dwasnt able to play for as long as we would have liked (13 seasons). That being said he was fantastic. Kareem on the other hand was great also but played 3 years more than Kobe (20 seasons) If Kobe hangs around another 3 or so season he will give that scoring record a real shake and a few more season i really think there would be no doubt Kobe would be the greatest ever Laker hands down
Magic was great but dwasnt able to play for as long as we would have liked (13 seasons). That being said he was fantastic. Kareem on the other hand was great also but played 3 years more than Kobe (20 seasons) If Kobe hangs around another 3 or so season he will give that scoring record a real shake and a few more season i really think there would be no doubt Kobe would be the greatest ever Laker hands down
I've watched a fair few games that feature Jerry West and the biggest thing that stands out is his competitive spirit...the guy just hated to lose. He was a high scoring, great passing, good rebounding, excellent defender and elite stealing SG who, like Kobe, had a knack for hitting game winners...thus the Mr Clutch nickname.
This is a good read - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_West
This is a good watch -
The biggest difference between the players IMO is their personalities. Kareem was always seen as aloof, Magic a whiner who got rid of a coach and traded the main PG (Nixon), Kobe is 'confident' and has had his issues with Shaq and has been tough to like (IMO). West always wanted the win, was humble to the point of depression, always looked for his team mates and continues to be a gentleman.
Don't worry about just Kobe...there is a case that he is the greatest Laker ever.
When you are dealing with the upper echelon of players, sometimes it is the factors that can't be placed in a stat sheet that make them even greater.
This is a good read - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_West
This is a good watch -
The biggest difference between the players IMO is their personalities. Kareem was always seen as aloof, Magic a whiner who got rid of a coach and traded the main PG (Nixon), Kobe is 'confident' and has had his issues with Shaq and has been tough to like (IMO). West always wanted the win, was humble to the point of depression, always looked for his team mates and continues to be a gentleman.
Don't worry about just Kobe...there is a case that he is the greatest Laker ever.
When you are dealing with the upper echelon of players, sometimes it is the factors that can't be placed in a stat sheet that make them even greater.
What "factors" that can't be placed in a stat sheet would you be referring to chaddy? Kobe is every bit of a competitor as anyone who has ever played the game and he's someone who won't back down to the challange of taking the last shot and being held accountable for it. Say for argument sake that Jerry and him are the clutchest Lakers to play the game, they both have the intangibles that don't appear on the stats sheet, competitors, the desire to win, students of the game etc. what does that leave us with? Individual accomplisments and number of rings. Kobe beats West in everything from number of rings, to Finals MVP, to All Star MVP, to number of all Star appearances, they are on par with number of All NBA first teams but after this season, Kobe will have more than West, to number of All NBA First defensive teams, Jerry West hasn't even won MVP in the regular season, Kobe has scored more points, grabbed more rebounds, shoots marginally worse than West from the field at 45 percent compared 47 percent, and has about 400 less assists than Jerry right now. I still don't get how anyone can argue that Jerry is ranked higher than Kobe as a Laker let alone in the history of the NBA?
PPG West 27.0 - Kobe 25.5
RPG West 5.8 - Kobe 5.3
APG West 6.7 - Kobe 4.7
West was an All Star 12 of 13 years.
Kobe has been an All Star 14 of 17 years.
All Star MVP West 1 - Kobe 2
All Defensive West 4 - Kobe 12
Finals MVP West 1 - Kobe 2
As you can see the only thing that stands out in Kobe is a better defensive player.
Kobe and Jerry both shared the same desire to win, but Jerry was more team orientated.
So not separates them, if you think Kobe is better, I'm fine with that.
I think the down side for most people with West is they didn't see him play.
Winning a championship is a team award, not for the individual, so I haven't considered them.
RPG West 5.8 - Kobe 5.3
APG West 6.7 - Kobe 4.7
West was an All Star 12 of 13 years.
Kobe has been an All Star 14 of 17 years.
All Star MVP West 1 - Kobe 2
All Defensive West 4 - Kobe 12
Finals MVP West 1 - Kobe 2
As you can see the only thing that stands out in Kobe is a better defensive player.
Kobe and Jerry both shared the same desire to win, but Jerry was more team orientated.
So not separates them, if you think Kobe is better, I'm fine with that.
I think the down side for most people with West is they didn't see him play.
Winning a championship is a team award, not for the individual, so I haven't considered them.
I thought I stated the 'factors'. To be more specific, Kobe fought with Shaq and in turn broke up a successful team. He is arrogant. He has missed much more game winners than he has made (2012 source - http://chasing23.com/kobe-bryant-vs-lebron-james-game-winning-shots/). He had a few legal issues in Denver. West is and has always been a gentleman - and the logo for the NBA. MVPs are awards based on the field of talent at that time - e.g. in Kobe's favour, he should win the MVP this season...except for Lebron having one of the best years ever...West played in an era with Russell, Chamberlain, the Big O and a young Kareem. They are both legends of the Lakers and the NBA, so who is above who becomes highly subjective. I actually said in my first post today that I have always had it Kareem/Magic/West, but Kobe is making a hell of a charge for the top three. And retirement always bumps a players 'aura', so I don't think I'd have a problem with him being talked about as the greatest Laker when his amazing career is over. I do have an issue if people just use stats without seeing the players run the floor - personally I think stats are great to show the impact a player has on a fantasy comp. Jerry West games can be 'acquired' on the web and are well worth watching.
Oh, and if West is above Kobe as a Laker, he is automatically above him on the NBA list.
I've taken this way off track when we should be talking about the playoffs...finally! Lakers go 8th, or can they jump as high as 6th?? Personally, I'd like to play the Spurs first round.
I'd like to see the Lakers take on the Spurs in the playoffs too, I think they are their best chance to progress. IMO Kobe has earned the "best Laker of all time" tag, I think he's now making a good run of trying to top MJ as the G.O.A.T . It's that look in his eye and belief in his skills that Jordan shared that make him great disregarding stats. At the end of the day it's the guy that is going to beat you by any means necessary. To score 81 points in this era against any team is ridiculous and it's almost as if he could explode again at any moment and do it again the way he's playing at 34. Kobe has 5 rings and it seems that he's going to get one more before he retires.
I thought I stated the 'factors'. To be more specific, Kobe fought with Shaq and in turn broke up a successful team. He is arrogant. He has missed much more game winners than he has made (2012 source - http://chasing23.com/kobe-bryant-vs-lebron-james-game-winning-shots/). He had a few legal issues in Denver. West is and has always been a gentleman - and the logo for the NBA. MVPs are awards based on the field of talent at that time - e.g. in Kobe's favour, he should win the MVP this season...except for Lebron having one of the best years ever...West played in an era with Russell, Chamberlain, the Big O and a young Kareem. They are both legends of the Lakers and the NBA, so who is above who becomes highly subjective. I actually said in my first post today that I have always had it Kareem/Magic/West, but Kobe is making a hell of a charge for the top three. And retirement always bumps a players 'aura', so I don't think I'd have a problem with him being talked about as the greatest Laker when his amazing career is over. I do have an issue if people just use stats without seeing the players run the floor - personally I think stats are great to show the impact a player has on a fantasy comp. Jerry West games can be 'acquired' on the web and are well worth watching.
Oh, and if West is above Kobe as a Laker, he is automatically above him on the NBA list.
I've taken this way off track when we should be talking about the playoffs...finally! Lakers go 8th, or can they jump as high as 6th?? Personally, I'd like to play the Spurs first round.
Ewww. Likeability is a critieria for the greatness of a player? I'm always willing to be educated on the greatness of the players that I've never got to watch, I was born in the 80's so it just wasn't possible to appreciate the different eras. I've read the argument about Kobe missing shots in clutch time a few times before, it doesn't change it for me and besides, you can't talk about that without having a comparison to how many shots Jerry missed
You've just given a whole list of individual accomplishments of Kobe that he's had more of than West? Like I said, if intangibles are subjective on who was more clutch or who had more desire to win, then what can the argument be for West to be a better player than Kobe? Championships: Kobe, MVP, Finals MVP and individual accolades: Kobe, total points (5th on the list): Kobe, total rebounds: Kobe, total assists: West by about 400 which Kobe will likely eclipse by the end of next season.
Bah bah bah, I hate individual stats in sport, Kobe has 5 rings west the 1. End of the day sport is about winning, west is a 6'2 white boy who would be embarrassed by Kobe at 6'6 and 10 times the athleticism. No comparison. Look at this way who would you rather guard?? Kobe, good luck.
