John Ireland Caricature Trading Cards - The Eagle Has Landed!

May-Z said:

not a bad list naz but i would dfefinitely take richardson and lawry out as they really dont fit in with the style of other players, as in their playing time, and i think actually harm the set because of it.

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Good point. On that count there may well be a couple more that don't quite fit, so definitely would like to hear everyone's thoughts. The list of players already drawn is quite small now, so not much left to pick from (see below). Please do suggest a couple of replacements (either both from the following list, or at least one from the following list). Also, do bear in mind, if we go for signature cards, we're likely to get them from former players, so any which way I dice this, some "creative" fitting may be required! I think the theme "Characters" does leave us a bit more wriggle room, but you're not wrong that the set has to flow, which is why I haven't just gone out and printed what was available in the first place. Also, why I'm asking these questions of all of you guys - so thanks for the participation!

Agnew, Johnathan
Amir, Mohammad
Blofeld, Henry
Cronje, Hansie
Fletcher, Duncan
Frindall, Bill
Hair, Darrell
Hoggard, Matthew
Kumble, Anil
Ramprakash, Mark
Sidebottom, Ryan
Singh, Harbajhan
Trescothick, Marcus

May-Z said:

re the signatures, why randomise it if it is difficult? what is wrong with people nominting whcih signature they would like on a first come first serve basis? it may encourage people to but a set if they know they are getting a certain signature, i certainly would if i knew i was getting a kallis signed card for instance (not that i expect him to be signing this series)

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IF there are any signatures, there will only be a few of them and best case scenario, signed by only 1-3 different players. What happens when the signed ones run out - will people still buy the unsigned sets? Will one person try to buy up all the signed ones. You see it gets pretty tricky. I have to be able to sell all sets and the idea of signatures is to entice people to buy more in the hope of scoring a signature. Needs some kind of randomisation and I don't think "trust me" is an idea that works for everybody!

Maybe have it like the captain signature set Naz. Have a some that you sell for a premium with sigs and then some that you sell without sigs for less.

Habarjan Singh would fit with the set and would like to see the caricature of him.

With the sigs, it depends on how many you get done. If you do 1 sig every 2 - 3 sets you will have people buy multiple sets as the odds are quite good. If they are 1 in 10, you may not get that many multiple buyers as odds are quite hard.

well done on it so far Naz, you have done a great job to get this far.....

Thanks for the responses guys. The premium vs ordinary set is definitely something I was considering. Just wondering if it also leads down the same road. People buy the limited premium sets (for a higher price of course), they sell out and then Naz is stuck with the rest.

I still think that's the best option though. It allows me to offer the premium sets to all you guys on OCT as a first option, with a clear conscience. If I can recoup half my money or so through just the sale of 100 premium sets, this whole thing seems a lot easier to do. I think most people would pay say $150 for a set featuring two limited edition autographed cards, wouldn't they?

Harbajhan MAY be a good replacement. I have a personal dislike of him, so maybe it will be character building for me to pick him for the set!

Next problem to discuss .... if the players I manage to get as official signers don't fit into the theme/style of the set, is it better to not have them at all? As a collector, I know I'd much prefer official signatures than not - so it's a no brainer for me, but it is a question that begs an answer from most people here.

One more thing ... for goodness sake, someone needs to draw up Lawry! In my mind's eye, I can see a caricature of him with Wendy Jnr (I'm sure most of you will get that reference). I think I have to pitch a plan of attack to John Ireland that see's Lawry play a role in this venture ... somehow. Does anyone actually know him? Maybe he would make a good signer!!

nazimcricket said:

Good point. On that count there may well be a couple more that don't quite fit, so definitely would like to hear everyone's thoughts. The list of players already drawn is quite small now, so not much left to pick from (see below). Please do suggest a couple of replacements (either both from the following list, or at least one from the following list). Also, do bear in mind, if we go for signature cards, we're likely to get them from former players, so any which way I dice this, some "creative" fitting may be required! I think the theme "Characters" does leave us a bit more wriggle room, but you're not wrong that the set has to flow, which is why I haven't just gone out and printed what was available in the first place. Also, why I'm asking these questions of all of you guys - so thanks for the participation!

Agnew, Johnathan
Amir, Mohammad
Blofeld, Henry
Cronje, Hansie
Fletcher, Duncan
Frindall, Bill
Hair, Darrell
Hoggard, Matthew
Kumble, Anil
Ramprakash, Mark
Sidebottom, Ryan
Singh, Harbajhan
Trescothick, Marcus

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from having a quick look at yourt list (apart form the 2 i mentioned) they all played this millenium so they all some some currency

h singh could replace 1 and personally i would have kumble definitely in as he was a fave of mine

I'll have to make an executive decision about Kumble/Harbajhan and perhaps throw Trescothick in the mix as well, as his caricature is sweet as! I'll sleep on it.

For next steps ... I'll have to first and foremost square things away with John. Make sure he's happy. Also on the side, there is talk about a possible book to go along with the set of cards. That discussion needs to be given a little bit more room to formulate! If that's a goer, I'll have to decide whether to postpone the cards to come out at the same time, or release them as an appetiser of sorts! Could end up harming sales though, so worth thinking about!

I'll have to revisit the printer and make sure he's still cool to work with me. The quote may need revision as these things invariably do, but so be it. I'll also probably seek a couple more quotations, seeing as I'm getting to the pointy end of this venture. I have been agonising over the design of the cards, especially as I'm not at all good with photoshop and I don't want to pay a professional designer if I can help it. The thought occured to me that I should seek John Ireland's help in designing the back of the card as well - it would flow so much better, and so I've pitched a couple of ideas to him and we'll see how we go. I think it will take John another 2-3 months to draw up the remaining caricatures, so I need to lock them down fairly soon.

Last piece of the puzzle is lining up cricketers willing to sign for a very modest fee, about 100 cards. I'm guessing Shane Warne is a no-go seeing as his manager wanted a $2000 donation for 20 items I have been offered some assistance on OCT on that front, so hopefully we can look at that as John begins the process of drawing!

Looking fairly good gents. I truly appreciate all the responses and words of encouragement. This thing is going to happen, there's no doubt any more in my mind of that. The numbers have been crunched and whilst it's not a good business model, I'm not after anything more than breaking even. If I make some money at the end of the day, it will only get poured back in to my personal collection anyway - so all of this is working towards the same addiction that you blokes can relate to. Hopefully I'll produce a decent product and get your cash off you willingly!!

Final thought for tonight: One complimentary set will definitely have to be put aside for Ron's grandson, Patrick!!

I love Trescothick. Not a big fan of the noxious little weed Anil Kumble is an utter gentleman.

Like the idea of Patrick getting a set. I know Shirley will like that idea. Very nice gesture

I like the idea of harbhajan in the set too. He fits the role of a 'character' well. Love the idea of trescothick being in the set. Saw him make his debut for Somerset and every season thereafter. Not sure I would like daryl hair or Mohammad Aamir in there though.

To me the signature card has to fit the set, not just to be someone who will make a good signer. Think you deserve to get a sig card of each one with all your efforts your putting in. As previously said we will know exactly how many sigs are out there so that is nice for a change.
Keep up the good work Naz, thanks for keeping us all in the loop too

Would love it if John brings out a 3rd book. Had the 2nd book when it came out and just bought myself the 1st one this week. So always nice to add any of Johns artwork to home collection

Naz I tend to agree with the consensus here, I think the signatures must come from players deemed worthy of being in the set....I'm not sure the players we have in mind are fitting of the era the vast majority of subjectslisted in the proposed set played in (ie the last 10 yrs).

Unfortunately I feel the ideas I might have for what I would like to see in this set are likely to be beyond the budget and logistically not possible. I might be asking you to dream too big Naz with some of these suggestions, but I thought I'd put it out there and see what people think.

Personally I'm not much of a fan of the two-tiered set (ie signed set and non-signed set), I think we all collect cards for the same reason and that is the thrill of the chase and to quote Forrest Gump..... "you never know what you're gonna get." Getting people to buy multiple sets hinges on the unknown, so there must be a chase set or chase card(s) which people are hunting for.

If you are doing 500 sets then I'd love to see say the first 50 sets (10% of the print run) gold embossed with either a gold border or gold writing, something to create rarity or a chase set - similar to the platinum set in the 1996 AFL HOF set.

And in a perfect world getting say 10 players in the set to sign 30 cards each (obviously majority would have to be Aussies to make it achievable to get the signings done). There would be 10 sets with all 10 signature cards, which means the other 20 cards from each player are randomly spread out through the remainder of the run, making 200 sets each having 1 signature card. This means you have a 40% chance of hitting an auto (1 in every 2.5 sets), and a 2% chance of hitting the big one with all 10 autos.

I would only individually number the 50 gold sets /50 and each auto out of /30 and keep the base set unnumbered, just numbering each box out of /500 - that way people can trade or swap autos into their set without breaking up the numbering.

In all honesty Naz I think if it means delaying this set release by 12-18 months to get signature cards included it would be well worth it - after all it is a timeless set in that were it released today or in 2-3 years time it wouldn't lose any appeal. And it would help lower the risk of you being left with 250 sets in your spare room because the lure of pulling different autos is there. Especially if there are 10 in the set, people would buy say 5 sets, pull on average 2 autos......but still need the other 8 to complete the set. If that was me I'd be left with no choice but to keep buying more!

I may well be dreaming too big here, but if you are wanting to know what I'd love to see then something in this format would be brilliant. If you had to pay each of the 10 signature players $500 for their services then it increases your budget by $5K but surely gives you far less risk of being stuck with a heap of "base" product yourself.

Just some ideas....gotta dream big Naz!

Brad

Hi Brad,

I've been looking forward to hearing from you. I'm still trying to digest all your comments. To be honest, I'm scared of aiming too high, especially on the tight budget I have. All my attempts to work with people that have done this type of work before and know how to get the right printer, the right packaging, the right signatures have failed (spoken to Select, Futera, SEP, Sanitarium, footycards -> no dice). So I'm left on my own, full of trepidation and an artist who won't be waiting forever for me to pull my finger out, before he starts using his caricatures on other projects that provide him with an income.

So, how do I take, what I have so far and convert it into something most people would want to buy? How do I randomise the autographs? How do I source the packaging that would maintain integrity of the randomisation? How do I find a printer who has done this type of work, knows how to print the cards and cut them properly? How do I do this, whilst stepping around competitors and license holders who, whilst they were not willing to work with me, may well feel aggrieved if I put to market a product that takes their market share?

Do you know, the other day at the SCG, I approached Rod Marsh for an autograph. Before I even opened my mouth, he told me "I'll only sign one thing". Basically told me that he's heard it all before, all us blokes are the same, we just want to get autographs to sell them. Man, I'm still feeling an inch tall due to the scathing comment. How does an absolute nobody like me even get access to even one player let alone 10 different ones, all for the small figure of $500 each? There I was full of p*ss and vinegar, approaching Shane Warne's manager for some autographs on a paid basis - got shot down pretty quick smart - $2000 or move on!

I love your dreams Brad, but as well as juggling all the challenges of life, I can't do all of what you've suggested on my own and with the small budget I have. I would love to, but I'm not as courageous as some people may have thought when they starting reading this thread! I'm open to suggestions, but I need help to make this bigger, or I need to find a compromise that will see a decent product out to market, and me not losing my shirt in the process. I started off with the simple Weetbix caricature set in mind and wanted to eclipse that. I couldn't even dream of anything more - so even the signatures you were talking to me about earlier, would be better than where I was heading!

Hi Naz!

Wow, the Rod Marsh incident more or less sums up what I think about him! Having said that, don't let one bloke put you off, for every Rod Marsh there is a Pat Rafter or someone similarly decent

As Brad said, this doesn't need to be a high-pressure "got to get it done in a month" exercise. It may be that you have to write down every single step involved and "bed them down" one-by-one. No changing your mind, no self-doubt, just tick off each process as you go....even if one step in particular takes you a month to sort out.

Maybe as far as the autos are concerned, you could have 2 players sign 250 card each = 500 in total. Then you could just randomly put an auto card in each set, so the buyer would end up with either "player A" or "player B". I think for the type of release it is, I would happily pay $150 for a caricature set featuring 1 auto. You could even have 4 sign 250 each and as you suggested have 2 autos per set.

The main thing is not to panic mate

The Rod Marsh story pretty much sums up sport stars and card collecting in this modern era for me. Gone are the days where a player would sign 1000 signature cards (i.e Futera signature series Warne, Waugh's, Taylor, Boon, Slater) and not be concerned about remuneration for their time and effort, maybe they actually cared about the collector back then?

I doubt any player will be willing to sign any card for a 'small fee' or for free for the sake of the collector, so I'm guessing with this project having a decent named player will easily blowout the budget? Maybe start off with a few rare inserts with this release and build from there, it will get easier after the first release. If there is an avenue to have one or two players signature cards within the budget for this release... then why not .

Guys,

I've had a chance to discuss with John Ireland and he's keen for us to press ahead. So a new game plan, which is BIG in some ways, but keeps things simple at the same time! I can see one or two blemishes, but I think the overall returns would be awesome, if achieved.

Lawry and other older players are definitely out of the picture now. The final list of "existing" players is down to the following 32 ...

Boucher, Mark - SAF
Bowden, Billy - UMP
Broad, Stuart - ENG
Caddick, Andy - ENG
Collingwood, Paul - ENG
Cook, Alastair - ENG
Dravid, Rahul - IND
Flintoff, Andrew - ENG
Flower, Andy - ZIM
Ganguly, Saurav - IND
Gilchrist, Adam - AUS
Gillespie, Jason - AUS
Harmison, Steve - AUS
Hoggard, Matthew
Kallis, Jacques - SAF
Kumble, Anil - IND
Lee, Brett - AUS
Morgan, Eoin - ENG
Ntini, Makhaya - SAF
Panesar, Monty - ENG
Pietersen, Kevin - ENG
Ponting, Ricky - AUS
Prior, Matt - ENG
Richardson, Richie - WI
Singh, Harbajhan - IND
Smith, Graeme - SAF
Strauss, Andrew - ENG
Swann, Graeme - ENG
Symonds, Andrew - AUS
Trescothick, Marcus - ENG
Vaughan, Michael - ENG
Watson, Shane - AUS

The new player list is still being finalised. So far, I have the following 13. Ajmal makes an appearance and Dar replaces Taufel (John prefers to draw Dar). Five players remain up in the air, why - because I'm going to try and get 5 players (as yet unknown) to sign 100 cards each, which I'm planning to present as puzzle piece autograph cards - torso signed - one for each set. So, incentive for people to buy multiple sets to get all 5 signatures.

Afridi, Shahid - PAK
Ajmal, Saeed - PAK
Amla Hashim - SAF
Clarke, Michael - AUS
Dar, Aleem - UMP
Dhoni, M.S. - IND
Gayle, Chris - WI
Hussey, Michael - AUS
Malinga, Lasith - SL
McCullum, Brendan - NZ
Sangakarra, Kumar - SL
Sehwag, Virender - IND
Steyn, Dale - SAF

So folks, if you know any of the players in these lists, or any other modern day player who would be willing to help, please put them in touch with me. I know a bloke that is mates with Dhoni, so I'll approach him. I know another guy who may be able to get Brett Lee, so I'll put that in motion. I'll also see if John can get Hoggard to sign, as I know Hoggard has signed for him in the past.

Naz

Got my first knock back. Sadly Ponting's people are unable to help with this venture. The search continues.

You want signatures? Appreciate any help I can get people!!

Gday Naz

I have a thought... let me dwell on it today, then I will throw it out there later tonight or weekend !

Apologies for the non communications of late, moving house and then oversease for business!! Home now... need to start unpacking some of my cricket boxes !! lol

Keep smiling
Damian

G'day Naz

I admire your determination to make this work mate, really do. Coupling your passion with Johns' work should truly see a great product hit the streets.

Reading through the thread, and seeing John would like to publish a 3rd book, have you thought of putting the two ideas together ? Some thoughts from me...

1. What about having the cards in a perforated format at the back of the book, reflecting images throughout the book ? Can easily be removed for the card or signature collector.
2. You could have 50 GOLD Edition books that bared the signatures of the drawn players and personalized by the author to the owner.
3. The NRL release recently had cards that you peeled off and placed onto other cards. Unsure of its success but if John was to leave spaces in his book for you to be able to apply these stickers then surely this would help sell the cards as well as his book. one is not complete without the other ?!

Hope these ideas don't confuse the efforts put in by yourself, just thinking out loud really and maybe they are all silly ideas !!
Keeping the dream alive !!
Cheers
Damian

Hey Damian,

I think that's a brilliant idea. The Classic Cricket Cards books is a nice example of perforated cards (http://nazimcricket.com/cigs2.php?p_link2=ccc) and combining that with a book is probably more cost-effective than just printing an accompanying set of cards. Love the idea so much that I will pitch it to the people who are talking to a publisher for me, via email, straight away!

Overall, I'm getting very little traction on publishing the book and zero traction on finding cricketers willing to sign cards, but I guess Rome was not built in a day, so I'll keep plugging away on these various options. In the meantime, John has begun the process of drawing up other players. He will be taking his time and dropping things when real "jobs" come his way, but that's perfectly understandable and works well for both he and I. Right now I believe he's working on Hashim Amla. I cannot wait to see it as I really like Amla, seems like a real nice guy!

Thanks for contributing your thoughts. This is the reason I put up this post. I've never done anything like this and I truly want it to be a set most of us will enjoy!

Naz

Hey Naz.
Give me a couple of days, my cousin ran one of the biggest book printing houses in Australia and she might be able to help a little more. If you can shoot me anything I could ask her I would happily do so for you.
Back to you mate
Cheers
Damian

aussiecricketer said:

Hey Naz.
Give me a couple of days, my cousin ran one of the biggest book printing houses in Australia and she might be able to help a little more. If you can shoot me anything I could ask her I would happily do so for you.
Back to you mate
Cheers
Damian

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I don't quite know where to begin. I'm guessing John's now retired publisher handled all the hard work of printing, distribution, handling royalties etc etc. All comes down to what a publisher can offer an established artist such as John. Can they just step in and look after all aspects, perhaps even financing, or do we go down the path of self-publishing by simply paying a printer to do the work and finding our own means to handle sales and everything else?

Some basic quotations via personal message for 1000 - 5000 copies, or even someone pointing us in the direction of someone who can provide some advice on how to go about this task would be really useful