Basketball Hall of Fame Debate
- Thread starter GarnettFan4Life
- Start date
I don't necessarily agree with the Mitch Richmond part, but for other parts, I agree 100%.
My point for bringing it up was the process was not working well I think they're putting too many people in. I know it's a fine line but are you happy with 1000 people in there instead making it tougher and only taking a fifth of those?
I think they need to cut back, even take some people outIt's a Hall of Fame, you should have done something extraordinary, something that changed the game. Vince Carter revolutionised dunking but then will have also scored plenty of points, been a multiple time All Star etc etc.
I dunno, when I think wow Hall of Fame!!! Mitch Richmond doesn't come to mind.... Bill Russell does. Jordan. Shaq. The All Timers. I think the Hall is too watered down.
GarnettFan4Life
OZCT Supporter
wrong thread : moved here:
http://www.ozcardtrader.com.au/community/threads/fringe-hall-of-fame-players.153014/
http://www.ozcardtrader.com.au/community/threads/fringe-hall-of-fame-players.153014/
GarnettFan4Life
OZCT Supporter
2015 Inductees
DIC/K BAVETTA [Referee]
JOHN CALIPARI [Coach]
SPENCER HAYWOOD [Player]
DIKEMBE MUTOMBO [Player]
JO JO WHITE [Player]
LISA LESLIE [Player]
JOHN ISAACS [Player]
LINDSAY GAZE [Coach]
TOM HEINSOHN [Coach]
GEORGE RAVELING [Contributor]
LOUIS "LOUIE" DAMPIER [Player] ABA
DIC/K BAVETTA [Referee]
JOHN CALIPARI [Coach]
SPENCER HAYWOOD [Player]
DIKEMBE MUTOMBO [Player]
JO JO WHITE [Player]
LISA LESLIE [Player]
JOHN ISAACS [Player]
LINDSAY GAZE [Coach]
TOM HEINSOHN [Coach]
GEORGE RAVELING [Contributor]
LOUIS "LOUIE" DAMPIER [Player] ABA
GarnettFan4Life
OZCT Supporter
2016 Eligible - Allen Iverson
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/featur...class-of-2016/index.html?ls=nba:specialsfull4
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/featur...class-of-2016/index.html?ls=nba:specialsfull4
GarnettFan4Life
OZCT Supporter
I think comparing Horry and Parish is rather rough on Parish.
Parish was a genuinely good/great player for over a decade, if a bit of a malcontent in his early days. Bird/McHale/Parish is probably the greatest frontline ever. He made 9 All Star teams and 2 all-NBA at a time when big men were the dominant position in the NBA and there were only two All-NBA teams (not three as now) until his age 35 season.
If you want to define the Hall of Fame as only the most elite players then Parish doesn't make it but the HOF has shown they do cast a much wider net than that.
I do like defining the Hall of Fame as "players you need to tell the story of basketball" and having said that you could almost include Horry as a vague footnote because he won so many titles in an error when players do not win that many titles anymore. However, his individual accomplishments pale compared to even a Parish.
As to some of the other guys, especially the older ones you have to realise that it is the Basketball Hall of Fame and not the NBA Hall of Fame.
So just like Ginobilli's international career and impact carries a lot of weight for his candidacy Calvin Murphy's college career also gives him a boost. They also tended to play four years of college so started later and careers ended sooner for most players. So a guy like Murphy cracking 1000 games and even nearly 18k points were big numbers for his era. He was the Rockets record holder in a lot of stats when he retired as well.
Again, yes if you want to have a "small Hall" he would be out but given how the Hall works he is a pretty easy in.
Lou Hudson as well — the man could score! Larry Costello was more of a surprise.
As for Hardaway; I had him in my folder of HOF players even before he was elected. (For disclosure I also had Webber and Kukoc in there pre-election but also Kemp and Penny Hardaway, not that I think the last two get in, they were just influential figures in the '90s when I started collecting).
I think Tim Hardaway is a tough case as he was so dynamic prior to his injury and was putting up remarkable numbers. Obviously never the same post injury but re-made himself as a key member of those smash-mouth Miami teams in an error when scoring efficiency was not what it is now. So, his impact on the NBA and basketball culture in the Run-TMC days then the solid follow up in Miami makes a HOF case though not an overwhelming one.
He is similar to Grant Hill (in) in that he had the dynamic pre-injury career followed by less dynamic but solid and longevity post injury — though Hill's college exploits at Duke dwarf Hardaway — and Penny (out) who had the dynamism pre-injury but couldn't find that post-injury longevity.
If you say guys like Parish, Ginobilli, Murphy, Hudson, Hardaway, Webber and Kukoc are not Hall of Famers that is fair. You are just keeping the entry level very high and in the case of some of those guys are most likely judging just of what they contributed to the NBA not basketball as a whole.
Parish was a genuinely good/great player for over a decade, if a bit of a malcontent in his early days. Bird/McHale/Parish is probably the greatest frontline ever. He made 9 All Star teams and 2 all-NBA at a time when big men were the dominant position in the NBA and there were only two All-NBA teams (not three as now) until his age 35 season.
If you want to define the Hall of Fame as only the most elite players then Parish doesn't make it but the HOF has shown they do cast a much wider net than that.
I do like defining the Hall of Fame as "players you need to tell the story of basketball" and having said that you could almost include Horry as a vague footnote because he won so many titles in an error when players do not win that many titles anymore. However, his individual accomplishments pale compared to even a Parish.
As to some of the other guys, especially the older ones you have to realise that it is the Basketball Hall of Fame and not the NBA Hall of Fame.
So just like Ginobilli's international career and impact carries a lot of weight for his candidacy Calvin Murphy's college career also gives him a boost. They also tended to play four years of college so started later and careers ended sooner for most players. So a guy like Murphy cracking 1000 games and even nearly 18k points were big numbers for his era. He was the Rockets record holder in a lot of stats when he retired as well.
Again, yes if you want to have a "small Hall" he would be out but given how the Hall works he is a pretty easy in.
Lou Hudson as well — the man could score! Larry Costello was more of a surprise.
As for Hardaway; I had him in my folder of HOF players even before he was elected. (For disclosure I also had Webber and Kukoc in there pre-election but also Kemp and Penny Hardaway, not that I think the last two get in, they were just influential figures in the '90s when I started collecting).
I think Tim Hardaway is a tough case as he was so dynamic prior to his injury and was putting up remarkable numbers. Obviously never the same post injury but re-made himself as a key member of those smash-mouth Miami teams in an error when scoring efficiency was not what it is now. So, his impact on the NBA and basketball culture in the Run-TMC days then the solid follow up in Miami makes a HOF case though not an overwhelming one.
He is similar to Grant Hill (in) in that he had the dynamic pre-injury career followed by less dynamic but solid and longevity post injury — though Hill's college exploits at Duke dwarf Hardaway — and Penny (out) who had the dynamism pre-injury but couldn't find that post-injury longevity.
If you say guys like Parish, Ginobilli, Murphy, Hudson, Hardaway, Webber and Kukoc are not Hall of Famers that is fair. You are just keeping the entry level very high and in the case of some of those guys are most likely judging just of what they contributed to the NBA not basketball as a whole.
GarnettFan4Life
OZCT Supporter
Kevin Love - current probability for HoF is 73.5%
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#all_sims
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#all_sims
GarnettFan4Life
OZCT Supporter
ok so the poll is closed but I thought I'd get this debate going again
Carmelo retires - HoF ?
He's got the longevity which equals points and other stats, 6 x All NBA and 75th Anniv team but the HALL OF FAME maybe should be giving out clear guidelines on how you get in and tighten it up a bit
Carmelo retires - HoF ?
He's got the longevity which equals points and other stats, 6 x All NBA and 75th Anniv team but the HALL OF FAME maybe should be giving out clear guidelines on how you get in and tighten it up a bit
