Reserves Grade V Under 20 .

Brett. said:

That is the problem with the game these days Steve. Too many so called experts who probably never had a lot to do with league in the past. How many times do you hear parents ( who know about the game ) on the sideline say "great tackle" when a young bloke does a copybook tackle ?

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I could not agree more Brett.

The best exhibition i got last year was watching Luke Lewis playing for NSW throwing himself into tackles ala ray price which is the only reason NSW did not get beaten by 20 each game. He was a pleasure to watch and his team mates such as Bird and Gallen followed suit!

That is why you see score of 40-20 in the under 20's.

Dont tackle just attack!

I haven't seen a tackling bag before a footy match for over 10 years, so agree with the don't tackle around the legs sentiments.

I haven't played competitive league for 9 years now but like everyone else who had commented I was also taught to tackle around the legs, head to the opposite side of the shoulder. I still think this is the most effective method of tackling especially when you are trying to pull down a much bigger player. Unfortunately the ''body tackle' is so indicative of the modern game where winning the ruck, stopping the offload and second phase and slowing the play the ball down are the priorities. A workmate of mines son is in the Storm development squad and they teach the first 2 in the tackle to go high and the third in to hit the upper legs so the player can be driven onto their back to slow down the play the ball

A bit off topic U/20s v Reserve Grade but I'll play. it's wet and a rant will waste some time!

BLADE said:

Based on what Steve (Carter) just said, is there a need to bring back the old system of weight instead of age groups to even out the playing field a bit and entice more participation that way. If younger boys up until the age of about 16 are put into weight groups instead of age, a child wouldn't be as scared to take the field against these oversized islander kids and would enjoy the game much more knowing there was less wrisk of injury.

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This weight system concept has some merrit but like everything it is far from perfect, through out life you have kids that develop differently mentally and physically and adapting is natures way. My son was a big kid for his footy age groups but also the youngest almost by 12 months in some cases and he would not have coped playing u/10s at 6 years of age on any front and would be now lost to the game, a game he loves with a passion and that he is now achieving at. For me grading by ability is the key. If there is a big kid and he is smashing kids his own age physically he is in the wrong grade. Too many times I have watched a 2s or 3s side and they are being torn apart by kids who should be playing higher.

Brett. said:

Not having a go at you Steve and i'm sure you are a great coach, but to say all your boys were scared should have had someone give them a pep talk and develop better tackling technique. Bringing these big blokes down around the ankles isn't going to hurt your boys. There are a lot of big islanders around these days but i think the parents are more concerned than their sons and this why we lose a lot of the anglo kids from the game. My boy played under 14's last year and he is a short arse hooker and some of the boys in these other sides you swear they are at least 18.
After watching him go around at training for a few weeks and being told to go high to wrap the ball up he went out trying to do this in games. Don't know how many times he was left on the ground looking foolish from trying to take these big guys high and i swear he got bumped off so hard one day he looked like superman flying through the air. Anyway, i had enough after about 3 weeks and told him that i don't care what they are told at training that he has to tackle low. He has a great technique and this is how he knows to defend. Finished the year with most consistant and a few MOM's throughout. Old motto...the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
But back to the thread, yes there should be reserve grade as this is a stepping stone to A grade and a kick in the arse for A graders not pulling their weight or out of form.

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Coaching as said by Brett is also a fundamental key, propper technique, structures, team work and an environment where the kids really enjoy their footy will keep them in the game longer. The right skills and encouragement will give them the confidence to be what they can. Half the issue is unqualified coaches and or even over qualified coaches. You need to watch the kids and work out their individual strengths weaknesses etc and taylor specific drills for them but it needs to be fun. Over demanding / technical coaches leave kids too paralysed to try things on instinct for fear of a mistake. Kids footy is not for "sheep stations".

Tackling low should be taught to all kids but also the kids must also know how to effectively tackle high, ball and all. Using my son again as an example of a big kid early on there is no way he could tackle the little kids low he just couldn't reach, he would have to bend so low he would plant his feet put his head down and they would simply go around him. After he moved beyond mini's (5-8) into the mods (9-12) His coach intervened and taught him how to tackle ball and all properly and then with a good grounding on how to tackle low he had options and now tops the tackle count.

The Mad Hatter said:

Participation is the key. That's why cricket and soccer do relatively well for players. Pretty much play the same game at all levels with only minor modifications.

RL can be played by younger kids, and is, by boys and girls. They also need to get in to the suburbs where your non-Anglo, non-Europeans, non-Islander/Kiwi kids are and get them in to the game too.

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Participation is a big thing and more needs to be done to make Rugby League the first choice for kids and parents alike. The development of the game in new "non league" areas is important but so is also building on the foundations of league areas . CRL neds more resources.

I wouldn't say Rugby league changes significantly at any level or that this is a real issue. The rule changes for Mini's to Mods are age appropriate and then to Internationa (12-16) and onto Seniors are minimal and a natural progression. Unfortunatley here on the Central Coast girls are forced to stop particiating befoe U/12s and there are no girls only comp, the girls tend to move to OzTag /touch.

On topic.......again I'm a big yes for Reserve Grade footy.

Cheers
Ross

I Love this !!!!

Well said... The game has changed, tackling around the legs is a liability if your first man in, they will run at you all day and pop the pass....

Brendan_B said:

I haven't played competitive league for 9 years now but like everyone else who had commented I was also taught to tackle around the legs, head to the opposite side of the shoulder. I still think this is the most effective method of tackling especially when you are trying to pull down a much bigger player. Unfortunately the ''body tackle' is so indicative of the modern game where winning the ruck, stopping the offload and second phase and slowing the play the ball down are the priorities. A workmate of mines son is in the Storm development squad and they teach the first 2 in the tackle to go high and the third in to hit the upper legs so the player can be driven onto their back to slow down the play the ball

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Not that long ago, maybe 10 years ago, John Raper said every player should wear a belt around the waist and if the player tackled above it, then penalty.

Now, it's going a bit far I think, I the sentiment is correct. RL now is nothing like it was 20, 30+ years ago.

I also would like to see no more than 2 in the tackle. 3rd man in, even if he only lays a hand on, penalty.

Would open up the game.

But back on topic, half the clubs can't afford a reserve squad and a U20 squad flying around. Was easier when it was a Sydney cup to travel cross town with 3 sides. But now teams are all over the shop, costs would be expensive. However, if the ARLC was smart, they'd have a preferred airline, signing a 16 team / ARLC deal with an airline AND hotel chain, and get cut price deals...AND advertise them free at matches.

You scratch our back, we'll scratch yours. Still need zero tolerance to prevent player misbehaviour jeopardising these deals.

But with the new TV money, they need Reserves / U23's and U20's.

And I'm not bagging U20's either. It's exciting but defence is a worry. Plus it rates very, very well for Fox. Some of the U20's matches outrate A League and AFL on Fox...but don't let Craig Foster tell you otherwise ;-)

As far as I knew there is a deal with Jetstar for airline travel. The only team that flies Virgin is Rabbitohs because they are sponsored by them.

I think most teams fly Qantas. The Titans would have used Jetstar because they were a sponsor and there were no Qantas services to Coolangatta for the past several years.

I think all the AFL teams fly Virgin

Carter said:

Tony Williams for example is massive and when he played for NSW he was absolutely useless due to the fact that he had stepped up a grade and QLD did not care in the least but NSW kept wanting to give him the ball to do something but he has no class at that level.

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What a ridiculous statement. Williams had no match fitness due to suspension and injury when he played Origin. Only a few months previously he had tore up at international level in the Four Nations, if you've forgotten. I don't know if you rate origin or internationals more highly, but if you're waiting for a Polynesian player to dominate origin then you'll be waiting for a while, due to it being an Australian-only series.

The truth is plenty of Polynesian players are very skilled (Ali Lauiti'iti for example - one of the most skilled to grace the NRL). Plenty aren't. Same as with any other ethnicity of players.

If Polynesian players are so inferior then how come the Kiwis win tournaments and the Warriors make the grand final?

I don't believe this discussion has anything to do with Polynesian players being inferior.

Tackling technique has disappeared for everybody. The game is spoiled by the two up, one down tackle, wrestling, etc.

However, I will say there is an influx of Polynesian players in the NRL. You can't deny that. And that needs to be addressed.

Where did all the Aussie kids go? And I mean country NSW and country QLD. [[ QLD has a much better junior and club system at the moment, but that's a whole other story ]].

So why the change since about 2000?

* In the period 1998-2012, you have seen Australian grassroots footy ignored, neglected and wither in certain key areas.
* AFL has made in-roads in some new territories which are NSW, ACT and QLD.
* NRL teams are more about recruitment than true junior development now, so they're always looking for cattle.
* Conversely, Polynesian parents see NRL as a stepping stone to riches for their sons and possibly extended family and encourage their kids to play and get signed with a NRL club.
* Therefore with a thinner spread of Aussie kids in junior leagues, Polynesian families who have immigrated to Australia have now filled those spaces in junior league.

Nothing wrong there...but why have the Aussie kids shifted away from the game? Is it AFL? Is it other sport? Is it non-sport? Is it because more and more families are dual income working families and parents are time poor for getting kids in to sport - any sport?

However, anecdotally, there have been many stories of 'older' Polynesian kids making younger teams because they don't have birth certificates. Nothing sinister, but it does explain some of the size differences in junior matches. That said, it wouldn't be all the time, but if you were a coach and could have the big kid in your team, I'm betting you wouldn't care. My brother-in-law coaches junior footy and it's been a bug-bear of his for a few years now and the teams want to win, so what do you do?

Then with bigger kids playing smaller kids, the smaller kids move away. There would be some endemic racism mixed in there out in the suburbs, but also, I don't want to see bigger kids (and I mean 'bigger' kids) smashing up smaller kids. Sure, technique is one thing, but size is another. Speed is another. Great having a fleet footed fullback/winger but if he's 2 years older and then makes U20's as a 16 year old when they think he's 18 and he can't cut it and drifts away, it's a waste for everyone - player, coaches, teams, development, etc.

The Polynesian influx has been great for RL. However, I'd also like to see the Aussie kids from areas out West of NSW, in country regions, in GWS and Brisbane, etc start coming back. Proper junior pathways for ALL these kids will benefit RL in the long run.

And just so people don't think I'm picking on Polynesian kids, my other brother-in-law was HUGE as a teen. He was always being hassled for having his age fudged. They had to show his birth certificate before pretty much every junior game he played. Even when he was 18 and made Flegg, etc. people still queried it. It wasn't until he was playing against men his same size, no one cared he was 18-19 being smashed by 24-28 year olds.

I always hope the Warriors can win a comp to galvanise that NZ support, and to be fair, they really should be a powerhouse like the Broncos. One country, one NRL team. Plenty of U20's teams doing well. And yes, they made 2010 GF, but geez, they were woeful in the backend of 2012. Had nothing to do with the fact any player was Polynesian though.

I agree Maddy, The Grass roots of League have been ignored for too long (I'm from the Riverina)
I also tend to think there is a generational change in the last few years that is leading to dwindling numbers.
-I don't have kids (But I am 1/11 and I have Plenty of neices and nephews) Kids just don't go outside like they used to.
10 years ago, Most kids played sport.... Now it's nintendo, internet, iPads etc, etc... It's a shame and so different.
Kids barely ride pushbikes any more.... Let alone, Play League!!

batboy said:

I agree Maddy, The Grass roots of League have been ignored for too long (I'm from the Riverina)
I also tend to think there is a generational change in the last few years that is leading to dwindling numbers.
-I don't have kids (But I am 1/11 and I have Plenty of neices and nephews) Kids just don't go outside like they used to.
10 years ago, Most kids played sport.... Now it's nintendo, internet, iPads etc, etc... It's a shame and so different.
Kids barely ride pushbikes any more.... Let alone, Play League!!

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Excellent point however I think another issue for junior RL recruitment is the amount of serious incidents at junior games being caused by parents of the players. Some of these incidents are very violent and could easily amount to those involved getting charged with serious offences. In Brisbane I have coached juniors, run the line, been a duty official etc and some if the abuse and threats adults hurl at opposition players is atrocious. As RL is considered the 'working class game' it seems to attract these kind of people more readily and I believe that it is a strong contributing factor to the recruitment of new players. I apologise again for taking this thread way off track!

Just in regards to the abuse at kids matches, it is amazing when I attend my brother-in-law's junior matches how many swearing parents there are.

Now I'm not a prude, but...

This will sound completely snobby, but it's a pity that plenty of what constitutes associated TV and radio media for NRL is for lowest common denominator demographics.

The NRL has the opportunity to place itself as the number 1 sport in the country for decades to come, it has the money from the new TV rights to do it, by fixing the game in the grass roots level, country rugby league, putting money into junior league, state cup level, Reserve Grade, U20's etc, and also by expansion, time will tell...