When I was growing up there 3 Grades and Players progress thought the grades and you would go see all 3 grades.it was changed some years to NRL,20's and state league.I am asking which system works best.I THINK WE A LOT MORE BETTER PLAYER WITH 3 GRADES.Not many of 20's finish and go into1st grade and if I was good enough to play in NRL how hard it would be to come up from state league.Interested to your comments.
Reserves Grade V Under 20 .
- Thread starter bob
- Start date
I used to love going to either Belmore, Parramatta or Lidcome Oval and watch all 3 grades. I think club rivalries were at an all time high back when all 3 grades played the same opposition on a Sunday afternoon. I think fringe players were more excited to turn up to a game on the weekend knowing they were going to wear their teams colours, even if it was Reserve Grade. It gave them something to be proud of and more often than not, Reserve grade games were tougher than 1st grade games.
In QLD, I don't see the same enthusiasm in the players when they run on the field for Tweed Seagulls, Norths Devils or Burleigh Bears. I could imagine it would be disheartening for a Parramatta player in Sydney to be demoted to Wenty Magpies also.
With the game going National it took away from the 3 grade system because of costs in flying and accomodating large numbers of players. Its a shame really.
In QLD, I don't see the same enthusiasm in the players when they run on the field for Tweed Seagulls, Norths Devils or Burleigh Bears. I could imagine it would be disheartening for a Parramatta player in Sydney to be demoted to Wenty Magpies also.
With the game going National it took away from the 3 grade system because of costs in flying and accomodating large numbers of players. Its a shame really.
I remember seeing some cracking reserve grade games, usually mixed with some up and coming young players and some first graders trying to make it back into the starting team.
I used to enjoy all 3 grades, I know Penrith has a couple of games this year where Windsor will play prior to the 20's and first grade.
Cheers
Matt
I used to enjoy all 3 grades, I know Penrith has a couple of games this year where Windsor will play prior to the 20's and first grade.
Cheers
Matt
Ahhh those were the days!
I used to go to Lidcombe Oval every game and watch all 3 grades as most players were locals and you knew most of them from around the area.
I vividly remember 1 game when i was sitting on the hill, and about 30 minutes prior to the 1st Grade running out, and over the loud speaker came the call ' Trevor Cogger to the dressing rooms please". Trevor was actually sitting on the hill with friends and family eating a pie as he had just finished playing in the Reserve Grade game, and yep he ran out for 1st Grade as the halfback(possibly Alan Neil) had pulled out with injury.
I used to go to Lidcombe Oval every game and watch all 3 grades as most players were locals and you knew most of them from around the area.
I vividly remember 1 game when i was sitting on the hill, and about 30 minutes prior to the 1st Grade running out, and over the loud speaker came the call ' Trevor Cogger to the dressing rooms please". Trevor was actually sitting on the hill with friends and family eating a pie as he had just finished playing in the Reserve Grade game, and yep he ran out for 1st Grade as the halfback(possibly Alan Neil) had pulled out with injury.
I would love to see reserve grade back even at the expense of the NYC comp especially for game day.
For me as a fan I want to watch my clubs fringe first graders play so I can see how their going. Unfortunatley I can't watch the Illawarra Cutters so have no idea who's in form and deserves an opportunity. Also as a spectacle the footy would be far superior, tough football with plenty of first grade experience better than kids Oztag which the u/20s often is. I don't really enjoy a game that ends up 38-46 at full time.
I understand the importance of the juniors comp and think this should be moved to midweek, Wedsnesday, as a stand alone comp. To me this would be viable as FOX loves content and would pay, a single national sponsor e.g. Toyota Cup would love the exposure and the ARLC with its coffers chock a block full of cash can spend some as well, it doesn't need to generate a profit just be financially viable. The teams attract their own Jersey sponsors, the leagues club chips in with contracts (same as now) to me it works.
Ross
For me as a fan I want to watch my clubs fringe first graders play so I can see how their going. Unfortunatley I can't watch the Illawarra Cutters so have no idea who's in form and deserves an opportunity. Also as a spectacle the footy would be far superior, tough football with plenty of first grade experience better than kids Oztag which the u/20s often is. I don't really enjoy a game that ends up 38-46 at full time.
I understand the importance of the juniors comp and think this should be moved to midweek, Wedsnesday, as a stand alone comp. To me this would be viable as FOX loves content and would pay, a single national sponsor e.g. Toyota Cup would love the exposure and the ARLC with its coffers chock a block full of cash can spend some as well, it doesn't need to generate a profit just be financially viable. The teams attract their own Jersey sponsors, the leagues club chips in with contracts (same as now) to me it works.
Ross
The Mad Hatter
OzCardTrader
Problem with NRL, the toss pots who ran the game in the late 90's up to mid 00's, thought we were like America.
Except America has a massive collegiate system for its basketball, NFL and massive minor leagues for the baseball.
They draft these players in to their comps, or buy them in.
The NRL, and for many years before, ignored Country RL and schoolboy RL. You reap what you sow. The NRL want the talent coming through but don't really want to invest in the grassroots, and couldn't because of the conflicts of interest Gallop has as NRL leader and News Ltd lackey.
The U20's came in after Reserve Grade has faded and teams had shared reserves - a la Souths/Norths, Easts/Newtown, Canberra/Souths Logan (of all friggin' places!). Even then, most astute RL people think it's too young. I remember when Dogs fans where howling to the moon that Barba should be playing back in 2008. But the kid was too young. And it was proven. He's still green now, but it's ok because he's a STAR!!! Yes...he is a good player, but freakish talent doesn't get you everywhere without a sound knowledge and grounding of the basics.
Which is where the U20's fail IMO. Too much flair and being told their good but when the grind comes, so many fail. And then they hit 20 and there's no in-between U20's and First Grade (hence Reserve Grade is needed to groom these players so they can learn and go up and down from 2nds to 1sts for experience).
Plus, you're seeing every Islander kid under the sun filling these sides. But one of the telling issues here is many of them don't have birth certificates. So they're hulks at 14/15 but they're really 16/17. So these hulking kids smash the smaller, younger kids out of the game...cause let's face it, which kid wants to get smashed to pieces by a hulk (and which parents want to see their sons rolled by the Titanic). And when the other kids who do hang around naturally catch up in size, it's not so easy any more, and a proportion of the Islander kids shift away from the game also.
Now the ARLC has their billion dollar booty, hopefully proper grassroots footy is attended to and it's not splashed in to Cam Smith or Jonathon Thurston's pockets. I'd like to see proper school kid footy, proper junior pathways in all states, proper training etc and a proper reserve grade, with overhauls in the country/state cup leagues as well as social footy where participation rates have been dropping off because part time footy players and social players seem to have dried up in many areas too.
It's a lot of work, and it can be done. And maybe they can put to bed some of the BS myths the AFL keep sprouting about their grassroots.
Except America has a massive collegiate system for its basketball, NFL and massive minor leagues for the baseball.
They draft these players in to their comps, or buy them in.
The NRL, and for many years before, ignored Country RL and schoolboy RL. You reap what you sow. The NRL want the talent coming through but don't really want to invest in the grassroots, and couldn't because of the conflicts of interest Gallop has as NRL leader and News Ltd lackey.
The U20's came in after Reserve Grade has faded and teams had shared reserves - a la Souths/Norths, Easts/Newtown, Canberra/Souths Logan (of all friggin' places!). Even then, most astute RL people think it's too young. I remember when Dogs fans where howling to the moon that Barba should be playing back in 2008. But the kid was too young. And it was proven. He's still green now, but it's ok because he's a STAR!!! Yes...he is a good player, but freakish talent doesn't get you everywhere without a sound knowledge and grounding of the basics.
Which is where the U20's fail IMO. Too much flair and being told their good but when the grind comes, so many fail. And then they hit 20 and there's no in-between U20's and First Grade (hence Reserve Grade is needed to groom these players so they can learn and go up and down from 2nds to 1sts for experience).
Plus, you're seeing every Islander kid under the sun filling these sides. But one of the telling issues here is many of them don't have birth certificates. So they're hulks at 14/15 but they're really 16/17. So these hulking kids smash the smaller, younger kids out of the game...cause let's face it, which kid wants to get smashed to pieces by a hulk (and which parents want to see their sons rolled by the Titanic). And when the other kids who do hang around naturally catch up in size, it's not so easy any more, and a proportion of the Islander kids shift away from the game also.
Now the ARLC has their billion dollar booty, hopefully proper grassroots footy is attended to and it's not splashed in to Cam Smith or Jonathon Thurston's pockets. I'd like to see proper school kid footy, proper junior pathways in all states, proper training etc and a proper reserve grade, with overhauls in the country/state cup leagues as well as social footy where participation rates have been dropping off because part time footy players and social players seem to have dried up in many areas too.
It's a lot of work, and it can be done. And maybe they can put to bed some of the BS myths the AFL keep sprouting about their grassroots.
The Mad Hatter
OzCardTrader
Well, if the ARLC is smart, they'll form a think tank of people involved in grassroots, country, junior, schoolboy footy and develop a program from bottom to top.
I think it's on the cards.
Participation is the key. That's why cricket and soccer do relatively well for players. Pretty much play the same game at all levels with only minor modifications.
RL can be played by younger kids, and is, by boys and girls. They also need to get in to the suburbs where your non-Anglo, non-Europeans, non-Islander/Kiwi kids are and get them in to the game too.
Unfortunately this is where you hit the dead end street and i dont want to sound racist or derogatory. The juniors are dominated by Islander kids and they exceed the weight, size factor by at least 5 to 1, at 12 years of age they are 60-70kgs and 5'10, i saw this 1st hand as a coach last year and my boys were scared and this was only division 2 in Brisbane, so they will always dominate at the junior level, which deters most anglo kids from playing the game or having a real go, so to speak.
I must add that all parents and me included thought that we should be in Division 3 so that the boys would not get hurt but we were denied that request by the League and luckily none were in Division 2.
I watched Newtown win the NSW CUP and noticed the Islander participation in that club which answered most questions but how many of them actually make 1st Grade regularly, not many, so there size/weight comparison dwindles in comparison as the age increases.
Tony Williams for example is massive and when he played for NSW he was absolutely useless due to the fact that he had stepped up a grade and QLD did not care in the least but NSW kept wanting to give him the ball to do something but he has no class at that level.
Soccer and Cricket is purely skill based no matter what your size so only the best do well eventually given the opportunity!
My opinion only!
I must add that all parents and me included thought that we should be in Division 3 so that the boys would not get hurt but we were denied that request by the League and luckily none were in Division 2.
I watched Newtown win the NSW CUP and noticed the Islander participation in that club which answered most questions but how many of them actually make 1st Grade regularly, not many, so there size/weight comparison dwindles in comparison as the age increases.
Tony Williams for example is massive and when he played for NSW he was absolutely useless due to the fact that he had stepped up a grade and QLD did not care in the least but NSW kept wanting to give him the ball to do something but he has no class at that level.
Soccer and Cricket is purely skill based no matter what your size so only the best do well eventually given the opportunity!
My opinion only!
Based on what Steve (Carter) just said, is there a need to bring back the old system of weight instead of age groups to even out the playing field a bit and entice more participation that way. If younger boys up until the age of about 16 are put into weight groups instead of age, a child wouldn't be as scared to take the field against these oversized islander kids and would enjoy the game much more knowing there was less wrisk of injury.
Not having a go at you Steve and i'm sure you are a great coach, but to say all your boys were scared should have had someone give them a pep talk and develop better tackling technique. Bringing these big blokes down around the ankles isn't going to hurt your boys. There are a lot of big islanders around these days but i think the parents are more concerned than their sons and this why we lose a lot of the anglo kids from the game. My boy played under 14's last year and he is a short arse hooker and some of the boys in these other sides you swear they are at least 18.
After watching him go around at training for a few weeks and being told to go high to wrap the ball up he went out trying to do this in games. Don't know how many times he was left on the ground looking foolish from trying to take these big guys high and i swear he got bumped off so hard one day he looked like superman flying through the air. Anyway, i had enough after about 3 weeks and told him that i don't care what they are told at training that he has to tackle low. He has a great technique and this is how he knows to defend. Finished the year with most consistant and a few MOM's throughout. Old motto...the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
But back to the thread, yes there should be reserve grade as this is a stepping stone to A grade and a kick in the arse for A graders not pulling their weight or out of form.
I actually went to 2 coaching seminars last year in Brisbane because i had too. The major point i got from the so called teachers was that you DO NOT tackle around the legs which i found offensive as i saw 1st hand 1 of my boys get fended right on his ass due to tackling high on a big guy, which happened quite often or they would not tackle at all, yet i instilled in them that tackling around the legs produced better results but who was i to change the correct procedure!
Its a difficult situation both ways. There is going to be winners and losers whether you play by age or weight. It must be very disheartening for a smaller kid with a lot of potential who gets continually smashed by bigger kids in opposition teams.
When I came through the junior ranks, I was lucky, I was one of the bigger kids and was talented enough to play junior reps in Sydney. Our club coaches used to tell us who to target from the other team in order to get an advantage and I am guessing it still happens today. This was one of the reasons I gave up footy at an early age. I was a targeted player most games. I had alot more potential in other sports so Rugby League lost out due to not wanting to be injured for my other sporting endevours.
You have to wonder how many kids with great potential did the same as me.
That is the problem with the game these days Steve. Too many so called experts who probably never had a lot to do with league in the past. How many times do you hear parents ( who know about the game ) on the sideline say "great tackle" when a young bloke does a copybook tackle ?
