Panini Paralells - too far?

nichj99 · Jul 23, 2014

So I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on the amount of parallels panini has put in this years product. Not only are the number of products at an all time high, but the "rainbows" are too. I mean, even hoops has had a rainbow this year & I'm struggling to think of one that hasn't.

Spectra was the one that broke me, and now I see the crown die cuts (not the triangles) now have 6 or 7 variations in this years preferred. Not only are they ugly but it's false scarcity. I'm feeling genuinely burnt out from it all. Is anyone else the same?

sacface · Jul 23, 2014

in a word. "yes" (please don't make me elaborate more)

and it started well before this year....

xavierty · Jul 23, 2014

yep im with you mate , panini seem to find some good and then do it x10000000000 and wreck it all, i love bball collecting but it really is killing apart of the hobby, so what i do is just go back to looking to complete my old 90s sets, alot more fun and alot more cheaper

KB. · Jul 23, 2014

Definitely. My player is a scrub and still has too many parallels. Luckily it doesn't appear he is in Preferred and he wasn't in Spectra. I wouldn't mind a logoman in NT like last year but I'm fine with him having nothing in flawless or immaculate.

SharpysSports · Jul 23, 2014

Yep. Way too far.

As I said in the other thread. I love my PC players and love collecting their cards but it isn't any fun anymore when there is an abundance of cards to collect.

I've resorted to a new 90's PC player (Horace Grant) and have put the other three as side projects where I will pick up the odd card here and there. There was strict criteria for my new PC player and one of them was not too many current cards, just enough to keep me interested.

wjrwebber · Jul 23, 2014

Think there are a lot now, go back and check Finest 04/05 and 05/06, not to mention 06/07Bowman Elevation.

You had- base, ref, green ref, blue ref, red ref, gold ref, black ref, x-frac, green x-frac, blue x-frac, ed x-frac, gold x-frac, black x-frac, white bordered ref, white bordered x-frac, superfractor, green superfractor, blue superfractor, red superfractor, gold superfractor and black superfractor. Add in your 4 printing plates and thats 25 variations.

But wait, there is something with more. I know for a fact that in the 06/07 Bowman Elevation Executive Level Relics there is a whopping 30 variations! Not to mention the 60 cards total in the entire product that Okafor features in. Not sure all the players have this many cards, but this is nuts.... I think off the top of my head I have around 40 total and about 22 out of 30 the Exectuive Level Relics.

http://www.beckett.com/search/?term=okafor,+emeka&brand=451557

Have a look.

All you 'new age' collectors don't know how easy you have it with tracking down these parallels!

nichj99 · Jul 23, 2014

wjrwebber said:
Think there are a lot now, go back and check Finest 04/05 and 05/06, not to mention 06/07Bowman Elevation.

You had- base, ref, green ref, blue ref, red ref, gold ref, black ref, x-frac, green x-frac, blue x-frac, ed x-frac, gold x-frac, black x-frac, white bordered ref, white bordered x-frac, superfractor, green superfractor, blue superfractor, red superfractor, gold superfractor and black superfractor. Add in your 4 printing plates and thats 25 variations.

But wait, there is something with more. I know for a fact that in the 06/07 Bowman Elevation Executive Level Relics there is a whopping 30 variations! Not to mention the 60 cards total in the entire product that Okafor features in. Not sure all the players have this many cards, but this is nuts.... I think off the top of my head I have around 40 total and about 22 out of 30 the Exectuive Level Relics.

http://www.beckett.com/search/?term=okafor, emeka&brand=451557

Have a look.

All you 'new age' collectors don't know how easy you have it with tracking down these parallels!

I'm having 45 cards per product now (using select as an example), so its not that far off the mark. Faried has only signed in only 10 products this year, and has 298 cards total - not including numbers from Preferred, NT, Immaculate and Flawless. All in all it should end up pushing 350-400 by seasons end, which is more than his rookie year, where he did sign in every product, with multiple variations.

Probably my biggest issue, is the quality of the variations. A different border, or a different coloured stamp for the serial number is BS.

Hoops - Base & auto Variations (Red Back, Blue Border, Red Border, Base) plus artist proof variations
Prestige - Bonus Shots 6 Variations, foil stamp (Silver, Blue, Red, Gold, Green, Platinum)
Prizm - 13 variations, including 2 1/1s and a monster box retail exclusive released 6 months later
Totally Certified - 6 colours (silver, red, blue, gold, green, black)
Timeless Treasures - Base, Gold, Black 1/1
Gold Standard - Base, Platinum, Black 1/1
Titanium - Serial number variations + retail exclusives (10 in total)
Pinnacle - foil "Artist Proof" variations (7 in total)
Elite - Aspirations (Red, Blue, Gold, Black) plus insert (regular, gold, black)
Court Kings - Base (plus gold, platinum 1/1), Portraits (red, blue, purple, white + regular)
Panini Base - Regular, Red Knight, Gold Knight, Black Knight
Intrigue - Base, Gold, Platinum
Signatures - 10 cards of each player for base, plus 5 serial numbered versions of each
Innovation - 3 variations
Crusade - 8 piece insert rainbow, plus 3 variations of base
Select - 6 variations of each card
Spectra - 5 versions of each card

I can live with the standard, gold, 1/1 sets... but soooo many of these productions look the same. Not to mention the quality of the design is generally worse than the 12-13 sets Prizm / Select / Crusade / Spectra for example.

Last year Panini flogged to death acetate, this year they are flogging chrome & rainbows. Enough is enough already!

ozballer23 · Jul 24, 2014

Problem is that in the mid 2000's we would have only 1 or 2 products with crazy amounts of variations, now it's EVERY product that comes out! I love the challenge but this is ridiculous! They look awesome, especially Spectra, don't get me wrong, but as a player collector I simply don't have the money to spend on every version - PRIZM, Select, Signatures, Spectra to name a few.

SharpysSports · Jul 24, 2014

I only really got into collecting again for last seasons cards but it was easy to remember which cards I had and which ones I was still searching for. Now, I have to refer back to my spreadsheet before buying.

The other issue is I feel it has dropped the value/prestige on these rainbows. I still own a 12/13 Brandon Knight Crusade Rainbow (still for sale if anyone is looking) and I had a massive sense of achievement after completing it. Now due to the amount of rainbows available I can't even sell it for less than half what I paid for it.

xavierty · Jul 24, 2014

thanksfor t

nichj99 said:
I'm having 45 cards per product now (using select as an example), so its not that far off the mark. Faried has only signed in only 10 products this year, and has 298 cards total - not including numbers from Preferred, NT, Immaculate and Flawless. All in all it should end up pushing 350-400 by seasons end, which is more than his rookie year, where he did sign in every product, with multiple variations.

Probably my biggest issue, is the quality of the variations. A different border, or a different coloured stamp for the serial number is BS.

Hoops - Base & auto Variations (Red Back, Blue Border, Red Border, Base) plus artist proof variations
Prestige - Bonus Shots 6 Variations, foil stamp (Silver, Blue, Red, Gold, Green, Platinum)
Prizm - 13 variations, including 2 1/1s and a monster box retail exclusive released 6 months later
Totally Certified - 6 colours (silver, red, blue, gold, green, black)
Timeless Treasures - Base, Gold, Black 1/1
Gold Standard - Base, Platinum, Black 1/1
Titanium - Serial number variations + retail exclusives (10 in total)
Pinnacle - foil "Artist Proof" variations (7 in total)
Elite - Aspirations (Red, Blue, Gold, Black) plus insert (regular, gold, black)
Court Kings - Base (plus gold, platinum 1/1), Portraits (red, blue, purple, white + regular)
Panini Base - Regular, Red Knight, Gold Knight, Black Knight
Intrigue - Base, Gold, Platinum
Signatures - 10 cards of each player for base, plus 5 serial numbered versions of each
Innovation - 3 variations
Crusade - 8 piece insert rainbow, plus 3 variations of base
Select - 6 variations of each card
Spectra - 5 versions of each card

I can live with the standard, gold, 1/1 sets... but soooo many of these productions look the same. Not to mention the quality of the design is generally worse than the 12-13 sets Prizm / Select / Crusade / Spectra for example.

Last year Panini flogged to death acetate, this year they are flogging chrome & rainbows. Enough is enough already!

thanks for this list mate , this will help with my k love searches...

ozballer23 · Jul 24, 2014

SharpysSports said:
I only really got into collecting again for last seasons cards but it was easy to remember which cards I had and which ones I was still searching for. Now, I have to refer back to my spreadsheet before buying.

The other issue is I feel it has dropped the value/prestige on these rainbows. I still own a 12/13 Brandon Knight Crusade Rainbow (still for sale if anyone is looking) and I had a massive sense of achievement after completing it. Now due to the amount of rainbows available I can't even sell it for less than half what I paid for it.

It's killing values of existing sets.

xavierty · Jul 24, 2014

ozballer23 said:
It's killing values of existing sets.

yep it sure is , its all about 1/1s patches, auto, ssp , the only thing this is doing to me is make me love the 90s even more , but it also shows how good the designs were way back then.....

ozballer23 · Jul 24, 2014

xavierty said:
yep it sure is , its all about 1/1s patches, auto, ssp , the only thing this is doing to me is make me love the 90s even more , but it also shows how good the designs were way back then.....

Well another reason why I don't mind the college uni cards of UD, they may not have the NB unis, but they don't have a million paras and appreciate design and inserts more....

xavierty · Jul 24, 2014

ozballer23 said:
Well another reason why I don't mind the college uni cards of UD, they may not have the NB unis, but they don't have a million paras and appreciate design and inserts more....

hmmmmm didnt see it like that , just wish k love was in ud..

nichj99 · Jul 24, 2014

SharpysSports said:
I only really got into collecting again for last seasons cards but it was easy to remember which cards I had and which ones I was still searching for. Now, I have to refer back to my spreadsheet before buying.

The other issue is I feel it has dropped the value/prestige on these rainbows. I still own a 12/13 Brandon Knight Crusade Rainbow (still for sale if anyone is looking) and I had a massive sense of achievement after completing it. Now due to the amount of rainbows available I can't even sell it for less than half what I paid for it.

I feel you man. I spent ages working on rainbows last year, always missing one piece (TC, Crusade, etc). When I finally finished one in 13-14 Totally Certified I was ecstatic. Since then there's been a form of rainbow in every product and the achievement feels way less special.

SharpysSports · Jul 24, 2014

nichj99 said:
I feel you man. I spent ages working on rainbows last year, always missing one piece (TC, Crusade, etc). When I finally finished one in 13-14 Totally Certified I was ecstatic. Since then there's been a form of rainbow in every product and the achievement feels way less special.

To me, the only rainbows are Crusade and Totally Certified. The others are just an over supply from Panini.

Ersk · Jul 24, 2014

In one word, Yes. Like other have pointed out, it was Finest from 02/03 with their parallels of different colours and refraction that started it all off.

It is like the adage, Build them and they will come...........create them and they will buy!

10 sets a year or 100 sets a year, someone will be buying it.

5 parallels or 30 parallels, there will be someone who will buy it.

There will be the collectors and the money makers.

It is all business to them, not just collecting. They will have their KPIs of having to lift sales by x% every year. If there are only a finite number of collectors, all they can do is to increase their output. They can try increase collector numbers, but that is difficult to do in itself, and may have limited success (and will benefit others, not just themselves).

drobfan8 · Jul 24, 2014

ozballer23 said:
Well another reason why I don't mind the college uni cards of UD, they may not have the NB unis, but they don't have a million paras and appreciate design and inserts more....

I agree, I've been watching more and more lately, there has been some gems out of the College Uni stuff.

I can't stand all the rubbish Panini is bringing out. But them having NBA is still a rather small sample size. I mean think back to 99/00, 00/01, 01/02 and 02/03. They are really flat years for cards IMO.

Panini are all about the business, I'd like to see their numbers of how much they're making each year.

Out of Prizm, Select and Spectra, the 1/1s and 12/13 Prizm Golds look to be the valuable cards. The rest is garbage IMO.

But I am looking forward to Immaculate and Flawless. Even if that too is crazily overpriced.

wjrwebber · Jul 24, 2014

Ok, I understand the whole parallel thing and all, but think of it like this.

If you're busting a product, would you like all base and say one of 2 variations of a parallel where in one 18 pack box you get 2 parallel hits and 120 plain base cards or would you like parallel hit of some variety in each pack? Base cards are 99.95% disposable these days. I've seen guys busting boxes of a low end product literally throwing the base from the pack to the bin....

nichj99 · Jul 24, 2014

wjrwebber said:
Ok, I understand the whole parallel thing and all, but think of it like this.

If you're busting a product, would you like all base and say one of 2 variations of a parallel where in one 18 pack box you get 2 parallel hits and 120 plain base cards or would you like parallel hit of some variety in each pack? Base cards are 99.95% disposable these days. I've seen guys busting boxes of a low end product literally throwing the base from the pack to the bin....

Base is now worthless because of all these unnecessary variations IMO.
12/13 select you had base, 4 Prizm's 2 autos per box and some sweet inserts
It was a sleeper product and worked / sold very well with prizm, black, gold to be pulled. It was enough variation without being excessive. Probably my fav product of that year.
13/14 select it's base, prizm, purple, blue, gold, green, black. Plus way more insert sets. Pulling the prizm #/25 was huge. Now it's a card you'll get for $0.99 on eBay. This is my gripe.

Variations = good
Excessive variations = very bad and devalues the product / hobby as a whole.

Panini Paralells - too far?

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