Fringe Hall of Fame Players

muzikandme · Sep 29, 2013

It's the hall of fame, I think it needs to be really hard to get in, I'm not completely convinced that iverson, carter or t-mac should make it, they were good players who never really achieved much on a team level. As individuals they were very solid, I would of absolutely said yes right now if they took Philly, Toronto or magic to a championship. Are individual achievements enough? Most players would tell you they would rather win a championship then an MVP or DPOY, so that speaks volumes when considering HOF.

edabomb · Sep 30, 2013

I think Billups will get in eventually on the back of his Finals MVP - it will take 5 - 10 years though.

Ben and Rasheed Wallace are both borderline. I think Ben will almost certainly thanks to his 4xDPOY - but that really opens up the debate for Sheed and Chris Webber as they were vastly better players at their peak.

wjrwebber · Sep 30, 2013

Mark Aguirre could well be considered. 2x NBA champ with the Bad Boy Pistons, 3x All Star, 18458 career points, career averages of 20PPG, 5RPG & 3.1APG, Naismith College Player of the Year 1980 and still holds the all time points record at Depaul in front of the likes of George Mikan.

GarnettFan4Life · Oct 6, 2013

Interesting table that uses a formula to try and predict who will get in

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

Vince Carter 77%
TMac 58%

GarnettFan4Life · Oct 6, 2013

Interesting percentages:

Mark Aguirre mentioned above - 42%

Players already in HOF

Chris Mullin - 13%
Ralph Sampson - 2%
Reggie Miller - 7%

Summary

Hall of Fame probabilities are presented for all players with a minimum of 400 NBA games played. Although it can be risky to make predictions for active players, you can think of these probabilities as answering the question "If this player retired today, what is the probability he would be elected to the Hall of Fame?". The model was built using a pool of 750 players. One method to assess classification accuracy is to compare the estimated Hall of Fame probability for the case to the actual result. Of the 750 players, 89 had been elected to the Hall of Fame and 661 had not. If the player's predicted probability of election was greater than or equal to 0.5, I predicted that he was in the Hall of Fame. Of the 89 players in the Hall of Fame, 74 were correctly classified (83.1%) and 15 were not (16.9%). Of the 661 players not in the Hall of Fame, 651 were correctly classified (98.5%) and 10 were not (1.5%). Overall, 725 of the 750 players (96.7%) were correctly classified by the model.

drobfan8 · Oct 6, 2013

muzikandme said:
It's the hall of fame, I think it needs to be really hard to get in, I'm not completely convinced that iverson, carter or t-mac should make it, they were good players who never really achieved much on a team level. As individuals they were very solid, I would of absolutely said yes right now if they took Philly, Toronto or magic to a championship. Are individual achievements enough? Most players would tell you they would rather win a championship then an MVP or DPOY, so that speaks volumes when considering HOF.

I'm sorry but Iverson and Vince Carter are sure things for the HOF.

Are individual achievements enough? Of course they are, otherwise you would have guys like Malone and Stockton out of the HOF for never winning a ring.

As much as winning a championship is important, it does not make you necessarily HOF worthy.

Iverson is a 1st ballot IMO.

Vince probably not, but he had a nice 3 years in College, plus he WAS the NBA in 2000 when he was keeping people entertained with his freakish dunks + he played for team USA and did THAT dunk at the Olympics.

They both kept fans interested in the NBA.

I could take or leave T-Mac though.

I think it's getting harder and harder though, as there will be many more players lining up that are HOF worthy.

Billups I'd like to see get in, but he may not. Ben Wallace I think should some day. I don't think Rasheed is HOF worthy even though I loved his game.

But then maybe the entire 04 Pistons will make it in together for a massive upset?

I think it does need to be more exclusive, it should be the best of the best.

maccca32 · Oct 9, 2013

GarnettFan4Life said:
So, what are good stats to be considered worthy? Who should get in but you think may not?

Well to answer your question here are the things the statisical anyalsis mentioned above used to determined probability

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/hof_prob.html

height (in inches)
last season indicator (1 if 1959-60 or before, 0 otherwise)
NBA points per game
NBA rebounds per game
NBA assists per game
NBA All-Star game selections
NBA championships won

Mully · Oct 9, 2013

mat2323 said:
Rob horry, oh hell no, if they start letting players who hit a big shot now and then in the why even have a hof, it would be a joke, as for mullin, it could be said he prob should not be in their, but he was also an member of the dream team, and would of had an average of over 20ppg if he hanged it up a couple of years earlyier

and the rest ... he was the best college basketball player in the country. People are so quick to forget that. Players from bum teams shouldnt get shunned because their franchises suck.

GarnettFan4Life · Oct 9, 2013

maccca32 said:
Well to answer your question here are the things the statisical anyalsis mentioned above used to determined probability

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/hof_prob.html

height (in inches)

last season indicator (1 if 1959-60 or before, 0 otherwise)

NBA points per game

NBA rebounds per game

NBA assists per game

NBA All-Star game selections

NBA championships won

yeah I seen that I meant the judges/board of selectors. I bet they each have their own criteria that differs slightly from the next

GarnettFan4Life · Feb 26, 2015

Zach Randolph get into HOF?

SharpysSports · Feb 26, 2015

GarnettFan4Life said:
Zach Randolph get into HOF?

I didn't know how much of a gun he is until I picked him up in my fantasy team this year.

Is he HOF worthy? Yes I would say so. Getting a ring will help his cause no end.

How bout someone like Horace Grant? He helped the Jordan era Bulls to those rings...

GarnettFan4Life · Feb 27, 2015

SharpysSports said:
I didn't know how much of a gun he is until I picked him up in my fantasy team this year.

Is he HOF worthy? Yes I would say so. Getting a ring will help his cause no end.

How bout someone like Horace Grant? He helped the Jordan era Bulls to those rings...

1% chance for Z-Bo....surprising

15% chance according to the stats for Horace

1 time All-Star
Career Averages 11pts 8reb 2ast

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/grantho01.html

GarnettFan4Life · Feb 27, 2015

Interesting I just found this too, browsing the Grantland vids

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkVxSezwdAQ

GarnettFan4Life · Sep 14, 2015

skip20 · Sep 14, 2015

Couple more names for folks to consider: Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson??????

mat2323 · Sep 16, 2015

Think all of them are their abouts, Kevin Johnson is the only one I'd have to have a hard think about, was a good player, but hall of fame?? Hhhmmmm

GarnettFan4Life · Dec 3, 2015

mat2323 said:
Think all of them are their abouts, Kevin Johnson is the only one I'd have to have a hard think about, was a good player, but hall of fame?? Hhhmmmm

I'd say no for Kevin Johnson - I think because there is no clear definition for entry requirements, and I know it's almost impossible because some qualities are not statistically quantifiable - but the whole Hall of Fame is in danger of losing respectability.

mat2323 · Dec 4, 2015

GarnettFan4Life said:
I'd say no for Kevin Johnson - I think because there is no clear definition for entry requirements, and I know it's almost impossible because some qualities are not statistically quantifiable - but the whole Hall of Fame is in danger of losing respectability.

Very true, greatness should be enshrined, not just good.

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