Being scammed - how do you think I will fare?

hairyangryfella · Feb 16, 2015

Mr Paparazzi said:
Hey Angry,

I had a scammer a few months back from Nevada try to rip me off over a Rhonda Rousey UFC card, I ended up going through ask paypal on twitter and this Anna girl was very helpful and managed to get me a refund which I could not get any answers from ebay and paypal.

Did you want me to go back through my emails mate and see her direct email for you???

Good luck with it mate

Brett

Thanks B,

My Paypal rants were initially answered by different people, but now I seem to have 'Susie' responding regularly, and rather immediately after this afternoon's progress.
She says 'the only thing I can think they may ask for is a copy of the police report' - which, obviously is completely in the hands of the Taipei police, but they've told me to keep an eye out for an email update.

hairyangryfella · Feb 17, 2015

FML... There was a relatively immediate email from Susie...

"I was able to review, and it appears the only item needed is an actual copy of the police report.

From my understanding the from the Facebook communication, documentation isn't able to be uploaded to the dispute due to reaching the maximum file size. When you receive or are able to print a copy of the police report, please respond and attach the report to this email."

The police report that I'm not sure will ever exist... Can anybody explain to me how this case is ongoing when there is clear proof that the buyer sent the items back to an address that he wasn't provided with??

WoobieZarz · Feb 17, 2015

Given you are dealing with Australian companies in PayPal and Ebay, can you contact ACCC? Fuckit, contact Today Tonight or A Current Affair!! Someone would love to publish this story!!!

mattharper85 · Feb 17, 2015

WoobieZarz said:
Given you are dealing with Australian companies in PayPal and Ebay, can you contact ACCC? f***it, contact Today Tonight or A Current Affair!! Someone would love to publish this story!!!

He is in NZ

WoobieZarz · Feb 17, 2015

Ah crap, sorry, my bad!

drsma1 · Feb 17, 2015

Is there like a financial services ombudsman in NZ? (I'm assuming theres one in Aust)...if you contact them, the company has to deal with the issue within 48hrs or something...or they get fined. I may not be spot on with the details, but the system works something like that here.

It always makes them pull their finger out...and im pretty sure paypal would fall under financial services.

hairyangryfella · Feb 18, 2015

drsma1 said:
Is there like a financial services ombudsman in NZ? (I'm assuming theres one in Aust)...if you contact them, the company has to deal with the issue within 48hrs or something...or they get fined. I may not be spot on with the details, but the system works something like that here.

It always makes them pull their finger out...and im pretty sure paypal would fall under financial services.

Thanks for the suggestion, I've contacted them but am not sure if it's applicable being an overseas company.

hairyangryfella · Feb 18, 2015

God I hate Paypal.
Me = black
Paypal = blue

The recent chats on facebook plus the latest email as follows:

"Thank you for providing the information. I've attached this to the dispute and requested a review. The only thing I can think they may ask for is a copy of the police report if they're not able to use the case number provided."

"Hi Susie, I've seen the newest email but I have to ask - has anybody actually read the evidence? There is enough there to prove my case! Also please explain how this is ongoing considering that the buyer "returned" the item to a different address than he was provided???"

"Let's go over it again -
The buyer was instructed to 'return the items in the condition received' and given an address to return to.
The buyer instead returned something else, and sent it to a different address.
I have provided an email from the postal service, a letter from the person who signed for/opened the package, and a letter from an appraiser. I have done everything that has been asked. Now you insist on a police report - something that I have filed for online but have absolutely no control over. It appears as though you are continually trying to make me have to do another task, until you find one that I can't, to prevent you from having to pay back the money which at this point has effectively been stolen from us by YOU. I am already looking into legal action against paypal. There is more than enough evidence to prove our innocence/the buyer's guilt, all of which you have been provided with."

"Hi Graeme, I understand. All information provided by you has been added to the claim and will be reviewed by our specialist. However I strongly recommend you providing the necessary document you've been asked for. Please do it at your earliest."

"You "strongly recommend you providing the necessary document you've been asked for. "?? I have done everything you've asked for. You now require a police report which I have absolutely no control over..!! You don't "understand" at all..!"

"Hi Graeme, I know this step may be inconvenient but as per claims policy for this kind of situations we need to ask for it. Your local police officer will be able to produce a report for you. the reason why I'm asking you to provide the document as soon as possible is that I don't want to see the claim being closed due to lack of it."
- I think they still don't understand I'm not in the US!

"We are here to help you resolve the claim but we need to follow the process. I've escalated the claim for additional review with the information you've provided previously but I can't promise you won't be asked to provide the Police Report "
- LOL - what??? 'We are here to help'????

"See, this is where it's obvious that you don't "understand". "Your local police officer will be able to produce a report for you." - I've already been there (and explained) that the can't, it's out of their jurisdiction because it happened outside of New Zealand, so I have filed with the Taiwan police but have no control over getting a report or not!! It's just another hoop you're trying to get me to jump through, but I don't know if I can."

Email from paypal:

We received your appeal for the following transaction and need some more information from you.

As previously communicated to you, we have resolved this claim in your buyer's favor. You can appeal this decision; however, an appeal will only be reviewed in the following scenarios:

• You received the item back in a condition different than what the buyer stated they received in their initial claim (beyond normal wear from shipping)
• No item was returned (empty box)
• Not all items the buyer received were returned
• The buyer returned the wrong item to you

If any of the above scenarios apply to you, please complete the following steps:

Contact your local police department and obtain a police/incident report. The police/incident report should detail how one of the above scenarios apply to you. This report should be on the law enforcement agency's letterhead or stamped police documentation and clearly explain the details of your issue. This documentation must include the department/officer's contact information, the reporting officer's name, badge number and signature. If you cannot obtain a paper copy from your local law enforcement you filed with, please provide us the link to check the complaint online.

- So... back to square one where they ignore all the evidence and ask for a police report which I can't obtain/is out of my control. I have never wanted to smash a company in the face more than I have with these a-holes!!!!!

hairyangryfella · Feb 18, 2015

VERY concerningly is in paypal's terms:

Claim Resolution Process. Once a Dispute has been escalated to a Claim, PayPal will make a final decision in favor of the buyer or the Seller. You may be asked to provide receipts, third party evaluations, police reports, or anything else that PayPal specifies. PayPal retains full discretion to make a final decision in favor of the buyer or the Seller. In the event that PayPal makes a final decision in favor of the buyer or Seller, each party must comply with PayPal’s decision.

So... "we can ask you to do whatever we want, we make the decision however we want, and once decided you can't do anything about it".

Do you want to trust this company now?

nichj99 · Feb 18, 2015

I'd start seeking out legal advice to be honest!

WoobieZarz · Feb 18, 2015

Fuck it, talk to the media! They have ways of means of getting answers!

I can't imagine any police department/office would find time to speed up a report for you, given the other shit they have to deal with, you could well be waiting MONTHS for that to happen!

drsma1 · Feb 18, 2015

nichj99 said:
I'd start seeking out legal advice to be honest!

Or this.

Got any lawyer friends? Nicely written letter with the right letter head can go a long way too....

hairyangryfella · Feb 19, 2015

Update on this - after nearly 3 months in total since the claim was filed, I finally got hold of an actual human being (via facebook) who told me that he had seen everything that had been submitted and that it would be taken care of. In the meantime I sought out a facebook friend in Taiwan and had him actually go to the police and physically file a report for me, and I sent them the picture of this report confirmation (albeit in Chinese). He thanked me for that, and said to keep an eye on the email...

"We have completed the following investigation:

---------------------------
Transaction Details
---------------------------
Buyer's name: hung chiaying
Buyer's email: yilan1980@outlook.com

Transaction date: 3/11/2014
Transaction amount: $774.00 USD

We have issued you a refund in the amount of 774.00 USD for this claim and have granted your appeal. The refund will be posted to your account within 3-5 business days, if not sooner.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation."

The nightmare is over. And I hope the police investigate this scumbag scammer.
Peace at last!

ReggieEvansPC · Feb 19, 2015

Great outcome. Glad you got your refund.

Matt26 · Feb 19, 2015

Great outcome!

nichj99 · Feb 19, 2015

Fantastic outcome. Glad it worked out for you!

Andrew Thomson · Feb 19, 2015

great outcome that is one for small guy

GarnettFan4Life · Feb 19, 2015

Wow great stuff - never thought you'd get a refund I'm shocked!!

Look at the lengths you had to go to get it though I think they just pick a side in a dispute and hope the other party gives up. Look at my case even - $200, they called it a "courtesy refund" to resolve the issue lol

Verse1 · Feb 19, 2015

Great result G

ozballer23 · Feb 19, 2015

Got you to jump through hoops to get that refund, just glad you got it in the end. Well done.

Being scammed - how do you think I will fare?

What will the result be?

Buyer has a completely valid claim and should be refunded

Paypal are completely inept and you will have to refund, even though you shouldn't have to

Paypal will decide in your favour because this 'evidence' is clear

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