Australian cricket team - where to from here?

Hi all!

As someone who loves the history of cricket in Australia (and first took an avid "fan" interest in the game in 1989), surely our current team must be at its lowest ebb since 1985. Personnel-wise, we are better than that crop of players, but I can not remember being as disillusioned with the direction and performance of the team as I am now.

Yesterday, perhaps fancifully, I fully expected us to bowl out England somewhere between 230-300, and therefore stay right in the match, most probably as favourite. What I saw, though, was probably the worst bowling display I have seen by an Australian team. Coupled with the second innings of the Gabba test, the reality is that we have now taken 3 for 834, with the promise of more toil to come today.

Combine these figures with the shoody fielding, and the old adage about Australian fielding teams being able to cover the sins of their batsmen suddenly sounds hollow.

There are, inevtiably, pointed question marks hanging over our top-order batting as well. Three of the top six - Ricky Ponting (who I adore), Michael Clarke and Marcus North - are potential "walking wickets" against a younger, fitter, more probing England bowling attack.

Then, of course, there is the captaincy. My own view is that Ricky has suffered the ills of modern "coaching" and from a lack of "cattle", yet eventually because of age, or the the selectors' axe, he will no longer be in the team. So who, then, becomes Australian captain?

There are, unfortunately, far more questions than answers at the moment. What does everyone think will/should occur in the near future?

I will always, always bleed green and gold, and wish anyone well who wears the famous green cap. However, I can't help but think that the XI that take the field are being somwhat undermined by those in higher positions.

Problem is we have over rated our players, not as good as we think they're, never been a fan of Michael Clarke, he had a saloon passage into the side, when there was other players more deserving and he hasn't performed at a high standard, just an average standard and that is not good enough...We have no spinners, if Hauratiz & Dohertry is the best we have we are in trouble, time to blood a few players and stick with them amd please no Phil Hughes either, he might score runs against the weaker sides, but not against the better sides...

Get Hughes in there, he is only 22 and yet people treat him as a 36 year old. Cut him some slack, he already has 2 tons and he has only played 7 games. If we get him in there now it would make him a better player and he could one day be Australias captian

With the loss of the best players of a generation over the last few years Australia's reign at the top has, not surprisingly, hit a brick wall. Only two players remain of our last Ashes winning team. Australia must now go through a rebuilding phase. We are in a cycle that all countries go through. Not to despair though, hark back to the sides led by Yallop and Hughes after WSC and the loss/retirement of the best players of the time. Under Border the team was rebuilt and our time came again. It was easy for the selectors to pick a side but now that the tide has turned they have lost their way. Hopefully, Greg Chappell's appointment will reinvigorate the selection process. As I said, don't despair, like the Phoenix, Australia will rise again from the Ashes and be a force to be reckoned with once more.

Walshy I couldnt agree more. Australia dont give the young guys a go! Bring in Kawaja, Hughes and Smith give the young guys a go FFS!

On the other end Australia also blood people to old like Ryan Harris his 31 and playing stuff all tests his one of the best quicks we have. He just cleaned up Cook who has made something like 500 runs this Ashes series lets see Mitchell Johnson do that. What about Brad Hodge? Australia really f*cked up there 2. Again one of the best batsmen in the country yet he never got a decent crack at playing for AUS. Look at his stats

Matches 6
Runs scored 503
Batting average 55.88

Yet we dont and never have played him in test's what a joke!

---------- Post added 05-12-2010 at 11:50 AM ----------

Almost 20,000 first class runs to what a legend!

We have problmes. Big big big problems.

Why no Phillip Hughes. he has 2 test centuries, an average of over 50 in 5 tests. Yet he gets dropped because he got out in a similar fashion a few times and all of a sudden he is no good. And he scored his runs against South Africa, not a weak team as suggested above. He never got a proper chance in my opinion. Yet Marcus North has more lives then a cat.

North has to go. Clarke has to go, injury claims, if he is injured dont pick him. He isnt that important in my opinion. Doherty should never have been given a go.

only problem walshy is that hughesy is an opener. Watson and Katich are doing OK at the moment and i don't see one getting dropped. When Katich retires, which will probz happen in 2 years, i think hughes will be first in line to open with watson althgough in the future watto might become a middle order batsman
North and Clarke should both be axed and give hodgey, David hussey and ferguson a chance
Ponting should resign or retire if we lose the ashes. Hussey should become caretaker captain until he retires and then hopefully some young gun could have shown some leadership and can be named captain..


If North and Clarke don't get 50 in the second innings this would be my team for the third test:

1. Watson
2. Katich
3. Ponting
4. D Hussey
5. M Hussey
6. Hodge
7. Haddin
8. Doherty
9. Bollinger
10. Harris
11. Hilfenhaus.
12th man Siddle

Yeah brad hodge getting dropped after scoring 200 was a bit lame. But this is coming from selectors that dropped Katich after scoring 100 and looking a million dollars on a tough turning scg pitch against India a fair few years ago. They basically ruined his confidence for the next few years. Similar to what they did to Hughes, I believe he was dropped prematurely.

I agree its tough rebuilding phase and there is no easy answers. We will be back one day, but I see tought times ahead for a while yet. If hodge doesnt get picked for australia in the limited overs games Ill give it away.

I often wonder if he made an innappropriate advance to a selectors daughter in days gone by or something. they definatelty dont like him for whatever reason. But he has retired from Shield cricket do i dont see him getting a run in tests.

Ironically everyone will blame Ricky Ponting if Aus looses the ashes.

Yet the selectors get of unscaved.

Just been watching the cricket and they said england have like almost a full second squad of youngsters here doing three practice sessions a day. On top of that they are playing games aorudn the country against teams. Now that is dedication. Aus needs to do a similar thing take their youngsters along to practice on other countires wickets so when they do eventually play for Australia they know the pitches well.

AND WE NEED A REAL SPINNER PROGRAM. All the spinners we have are CRAP. They need to admit that and move on and train some.

Cut off the head and the body will die. Ponting has created this protected species boys club mentality, the aussie side wont begin a clumb back into the top of world cricket until he's gone.

bo3197 said:

only problem walshy is that hughesy is an opener. Watson and Katich are doing OK at the moment and i don't see one getting dropped. When Katich retires, which will probz happen in 2 years, i think hughes will be first in line to open with watson althgough in the future watto might become a middle order batsman
North and Clarke should both be axed and give hodgey, David hussey and ferguson a chance
Ponting should resign or retire if we lose the ashes. Hussey should become caretaker captain until he retires and then hopefully some young gun could have shown some leadership and can be named captain..

If North and Clarke don't get 50 in the second innings this would be my team for the third test:

1. Watson
2. Katich
3. Ponting
4. D Hussey
5. M Hussey
6. Hodge
7. Haddin
8. Doherty
9. Bollinger
10. Harris
11. Hilfenhaus.
12th man Siddle

Click to expand...

Ponting will retire after this ashes series he's to old and his hit a slump. Hughes SHOULD come in and open with Katich put Watson at 3 and make him captain..D Hussey isnt a test player and Hodge is to old he missed out big time.

kingjack said:

Ponting will retire after this ashes series he's to old and his hit a slump. Hughes SHOULD come in and open with Katich put Watson at 3 and make him captain..D Hussey isnt a test player and Hodge is to old he missed out big time.

Click to expand...

Why does everyone say remove Watson from opening!?! He's doing fine opening!

lol watson a captain? please.

Australia needs a good 5-10year development plan to get back to the top atm. Nothing will help at this stage.

What's the love in with Kawaja, seriously what has he done, this perception that only NSW has good crickets players is one of the issue's, someone plays well for 1/2 season you want to put them straight in.... Hodge has retired only plays Twenty20 or 50 over games, was never given a fair go.... If you want to play for Australia move to NSW...

AyiosYiorgos said:

What's the love in with Kawaja, seriously what has he done, this perception that only NSW has good crickets players is one of the issue's, someone plays well for 1/2 season you want to put them straight in.... Hodge has retired only plays Twenty20 or 50 over games, was never given a fair go.... If you want to play for Australia move to NSW...

Click to expand...

Obviously it's always been like that, Kawaja is an opener if we have 2 left handed openers the harder it is for the bowlers. This would be my team

Kawaja
Hughes
Watson - Captain
Katich
White
Haddin
Ferguson
Doherty
Harris
Hilfenhaus
Johnson

12th Man
Siddle

Reserves

Shaun Marsh
Andrew McDonald.

kingjack said:

Obviously it's always been like that, Kawaja is an opener if we have 2 left handed openers the harder it is for the bowlers. This would be my team

Kawaja
Hughes
Watson - Captain
Katich
White
Haddin
Ferguson
Doherty
Harris
Hilfenhaus
Johnson

12th Man
Siddle

Reserves

Shaun Marsh
Andrew McDonald.

Click to expand...

Why move 2 openers down the order?

Overpaid and over rated. They just hang in for their pay cheques, it seems like some of them are just going through the motions. It's common knowledge that it's harder to get out of the Aussie side than it is to get into it. We need to try and inject some youth into the side.

3rd Test
Watson
Hughes
Ponting
Marsh
Hussey
Ferguson
Haddin
Johnson
Doherty
Harris
Hilfenhaus

Could even consider think about George from SA as a possible bowler, he has the pace and the height to bang it in. Quite clearly the attack we have isn't capable of taking 10 wickets never mind 20.

liamszaraz said:

Why move 2 openers down the order?

Click to expand...

Because there is no other player in my team that could bat at #3 so I put Watson there and Kawaja + Hughes are openers and it would be good to see some fresh faces at the top of the order thats just my opinion

yeah, they need to look to the future if they lose this test. the only thing saving them now is the weather.
ponting will captain till the end of the ashes, then its time for a fresh captain, new ideas. i know he isn't even in the team but maybe bring in cam white now for the last few tests as the successor. he has proven that he can captain and win. how many shields can he win for vic? also, haddin is doing well as a batsman, but his keeping is letting him down. there is some good young keepers coming thru the ranks. watson and katich are fine for now, we do need a hughes, blizzard,Kawaja or young player alike at 4 or 5 to just get the experience till the openers retire or fail badly. we need andrew (ronald) mcdonald back in the team. he bats, bowls and fields. and the bowling side of things. we keep bringing in the same people every test. we need to give these young bowlers a go. i agree we should pick george and mckay in the team as well.

I'll start out with some interesting stats:

- Xavier Doherty is the 30th player to debut during Ponting's captaincy (2004-current).
- Only 7 debuted under the captaincy of Steve Waugh (1999-2004).
- 33 debuted under Allan Border, but Border also captained Australia in 18 more Tests than Ponting up til now [AB 93 Tests as skipper vs Punter 75 so far]
- Of Border's 33 debutants only 7 played 5 Tests or less.
- Ponting has 14 who have played 5 Tests or less.

So while everyone thinks the selectors are afraid to make a change, clearly they have swung more changes in the past 6 years than any time over the past 25 yrs.

The problem though is they appear to be the wrong changes. In all honesty Hussey and North should have gone 6 months ago, and now Hussey has redeemed himself by making two big scores these past two Tests (on top of his 100 for WA) and is safe again for the short term. If North stays in the side then of course he will make a ton in the next 10 innings - any proven player at Test level can still do it if they keep being given enough chances (think Mark Taylor after that stretch of no test 50 for 21 innings in 1992-93). The problem with North is that he fails when he is needed most - before this Test match his Test average when going in with the score at 150 or less was a miserable 6.83!! And even this time he didn't make it past 26. Simply unacceptable, and clearly proof that he cannot perform under extreme pressure.

Unfortunately Doherty does not seem to be the answer....he does not look threatening enough and also is unable to tie up an end. I still think the best of the lot was Krejza, he also leaked runs but was never afraid to throw the ball up above the batsman's eyeline, give it plenty of flight and make them use their feet, invariably drawing them down the pitch and looking like he was tempting the batsman into error. Whether he was too big a personality for the team is questionable, but cannot believe how quickly he arrived and then disappeared from the side.

Khawaja looks the real deal, a very stylish and classical player (no surprise Greg Chappell is a fan), and he averages 53.9 in 21 first class matches. Stats like that don't pop up all that often, hence why he is next in line for North's spot. He is clearly in front of Ferguson, who it must be remembered averages a very ordinary 35 in first class cricket. He has a much better ODI average (46), but if you were picking Test players on their ODI form then Michael Bevan would have played 100 Tests. Ferguson will play Test cricket in the future (he reminds me a lot of Blewett) but he must improve his average before he earns a baggy green.

The bowling attack just does not look like taking 20 wickets, and you can't win Test matches if you don't achieve this. I don't think anyone is giving enough credit to England's top 6, which is probably their best batting lineup since their last successful outing here in 1986/87. If Australia win or tie the series I see Ponting's job as safe, but to lose this series would make it very hard for him to continue, particularly if he performs below par in the rest of the series. The real problem lies in his replacement. As it stands on form Hussey is probably the best caretaker option, which is a joke really given he was one Shield failure away from losing his Test spot only 3 weeks ago. But i think Clarke has been groomed for the job for too long for the selectors to change their tune. Unless he hits a Greg Chappellesque run of outs he will get the gig.

Hughes deserves his spot back without question, and with a Test average over 50 and a First Class average above 55, he will get it back. The dust needs to settle on this top order, and I think Watson's unexpected success as an opener has really thrown out the balance of this team - clearly they wanted Hughes back in but Watson kept scoring runs to deny him. Hughes should instead have been brought in at 6 instead of North or at 5 instead of Hussey 6 months ago. North will soon go, but that #6 spot will go to Khawaja. Also Haddins ability with the bat may also mean they could bat Haddin at 6 and bring in Smith as a second spinner in Sydney. I think with England's confidence at an all-time high it would be good to bring in a leggie who will tempt the Poms to take him on and this could work in Australia's favour.

The bonus is that a solid batting effort from Australia in the 2nd innings will see us go to the 3rd Test with the series still at 0-0 even though the Aussies have been thoroughly outplayed in both Tests. Failing that the inclement weather looks likely to take care of the draw.

People do need to understand that this team was always going to go through some pain given the outstanding quality that has departed from the team over the past 3-4 years. Australia has been so dominant for so long that many younger fans have never seen our team under real pressure until we lost the Ashes in 2005. Just look at who have retired (McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist, Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Lee, Clark etc) and it is little wonder there are big shoes to fill to get Australia back to the top of Test cricket. But clearly the selectors have got it wrong more often than they have got it right.

P.S. Regarding Ponting, please read this article by Glenn Mitchell.....it makes some intriguing comparisons with previous skippers and other international captains and perhaps puts Ponting's legacy in some sort of perspective:

ABC Sport - Ponting's captaincy record speaks for itself