mwatson692k - Theres another thread that has been created using the text from your thread at Beckett over at the PSA boards. I've just replied to the PSA thread with a link back here and the videos that have been created. The more people that know about this the better.
Whats the story behind these?
- Thread starter rhysjsolomon
- Start date
Billyhoyle
Im Not Juan Garcia
Another little interesting mention here:
HobbyKings.com :: View topic - Could it be? Another Whale Speared?
HobbyKings.com :: View topic - Could it be? Another Whale Speared?
Billyhoyle
Im Not Juan Garcia
is that true - sellers can't have private feedback?
Billyhoyle
Im Not Juan Garcia
I agree especially for a great collector and a great guy (with my dealings in the past)
I found out about this site because of this thread (nice video work hill3 and rhys!). I have read most but not all of the posts so please forgive me if I rehash 'stuff'.
These chrome 'proofs' first popped up on eBay in 2002. The seller I bought a bunch from was actually a former Beckett price guide editor (and was not associated with Beckett at the time or since). I did not know him aside from that he was part of the first 1 to 2 years of the Basketball Monthly guide. We e-mailed and he told me that he had picked up a couple of sets at a Chicago show and was breaking them up. Fair enough. About 6 months later, I found out that these cards while possibly taken from a Topps facility were more likely tops peeled of pack-inserted cards. I never bought another one and until recently, they had stopped appearing on eBay.
And those other so-called 'oversized proof' cards that you see sellers pimping on eBay? They are cut from sheets... not legitmate at all. There are sellers who get these sheets professionally cut. I was first informed of this back in 2002 but like a couple of collector friends, I didn't mind buying these 'cuts' for $1 or $2 because I could have the uncut sheet as well as a 'binder display' version. I stopped buying these types of cards 3-4 years ago because I stopped justifying that the ends/means.
There are legitimate proof cards that exist but they generally are in rough shape and have white colour guide sides with the photographer target. They also tend to have disappeared around the 91/92 season as companies went to digital technology. The Topps Vault also sells their colour proofs. Are these more or less legitmate? Depends on your collecting goals (and wallet).
While I don't know Patrick well, I do know of his passion and love of collecting. I was disappointed when he was selling all kinds of proofs because he was not being 100% truthful in his descriptions. Case in point that Joe Forte Showcase 1/1: that card came from the Fleer bankruptcy sale. I know. You know it. Patrick knows it. It should have been in that description.
I would guess that he did indeed buy a large collection of these oddballs and probably over payed in order to get his hands on all the LJs that were in there. Knowing his collection, these types of cards fit right in there. I would also guess that he is selling the other 'crap' in order to get rid of them and recoup some of his costs. I do not think he should be crucified for it because there are other well known sellers doing the same thing and not being called out for it. He's done a lot of good for others in this hobby and that really should be taken into consideration.
But then again I like chadjaja, so question my judgment.
These chrome 'proofs' first popped up on eBay in 2002. The seller I bought a bunch from was actually a former Beckett price guide editor (and was not associated with Beckett at the time or since). I did not know him aside from that he was part of the first 1 to 2 years of the Basketball Monthly guide. We e-mailed and he told me that he had picked up a couple of sets at a Chicago show and was breaking them up. Fair enough. About 6 months later, I found out that these cards while possibly taken from a Topps facility were more likely tops peeled of pack-inserted cards. I never bought another one and until recently, they had stopped appearing on eBay.
And those other so-called 'oversized proof' cards that you see sellers pimping on eBay? They are cut from sheets... not legitmate at all. There are sellers who get these sheets professionally cut. I was first informed of this back in 2002 but like a couple of collector friends, I didn't mind buying these 'cuts' for $1 or $2 because I could have the uncut sheet as well as a 'binder display' version. I stopped buying these types of cards 3-4 years ago because I stopped justifying that the ends/means.
There are legitimate proof cards that exist but they generally are in rough shape and have white colour guide sides with the photographer target. They also tend to have disappeared around the 91/92 season as companies went to digital technology. The Topps Vault also sells their colour proofs. Are these more or less legitmate? Depends on your collecting goals (and wallet).
While I don't know Patrick well, I do know of his passion and love of collecting. I was disappointed when he was selling all kinds of proofs because he was not being 100% truthful in his descriptions. Case in point that Joe Forte Showcase 1/1: that card came from the Fleer bankruptcy sale. I know. You know it. Patrick knows it. It should have been in that description.
I would guess that he did indeed buy a large collection of these oddballs and probably over payed in order to get his hands on all the LJs that were in there. Knowing his collection, these types of cards fit right in there. I would also guess that he is selling the other 'crap' in order to get rid of them and recoup some of his costs. I do not think he should be crucified for it because there are other well known sellers doing the same thing and not being called out for it. He's done a lot of good for others in this hobby and that really should be taken into consideration.
But then again I like chadjaja, so question my judgment.
There's a lot of guess-work in your statements. The only thing that needs to be highlighted is that bolded statement: Patrick's not being 100% truthful in his descriptions, enough said. He has been evasive in explaining how he has obtained these cards which are clearly not true proofs. He should be crucifed ESPECIALLY because he is a true collector and knows of the passion that many collectors share, and has been deliberately pulling the wool over their eyes in a attempt to make money off common cards. Any other seller that is doing the same thing will receive the same form of bad publicity (please give evidence when saying that there are other well known sellers doing the same thing so that others know and avoid these sellers too).
The problem is that his previous contributions to the hobby or friendships can't be taken into consideration, because precedents have been set before this. Traders/sellers have done similar or lesser acts and have been crucified or dragged over the coals for it. To now say that because he is a great guy, everyone should give him a break is unfair and really hurts many people's credibility. I've always enjoyed his posts and collecting stories, so for me it's not an attack on his character. I just hate it when I see people flip flop to whatever approach suits their agenda or situation. Either give every trader/seller the same level of sympathy/understanding afforded to Patrick, or hold everyone accountable for their actions.......you can't pick and choose!
His story seems to change. When I first contacted him, he said he cut them from a sheet himself. Then he got them in a large lot and didnt know the background behind them. I could've believed the second story if he hadn't started selling 07/08 Finest about a week or so after it came out. That was what gave it away that he was making these himself.
Easy way to make money... I guess there will always be someone out there that can get ripped off. 
G! I like your production Demo!!!
Well Done!
G! I like your production Demo!!!
Well Done!
