Whats the story behind these?

[hobbibox]

i will try to refrain from loosing my cool but when i hear about that scum bag i cant help it...he's as worthless as a craig ehlo auto. i hope his larry johnson room burns down

wo wo wooooooooo.... settle down leave Craig Ehlo out of this lol

 

[Essellohbeebeewhy]

wo wo wooooooooo.... settle down leave Craig Ehlo out of this lol

ur right, i have gone too far. i profess my profound appologies to the good people and wonderful members and administrators of O.C.T. it was an erroneous comment made in the spur of the moment and in no way meant to depose the standing of craig ehlo

 

[*Oz]

Do you take back what you said about LJ too?

 

[Essellohbeebeewhy]

pffft!!!!!!!!!

 

[hobbibox]

Do you take back what you said about LJ too?

I think he was spot on ie the LJ comment.

 

[*Oz]

Was talking about the original LJ remark but was all TIC anyway and now we're OT

 

[ljandkg]

As so nicely put by ljandkg - I too am one of these Idiots

I was merely emphasising the fact that so many left positives when it has been so easily 'uncovered as a scam' here. Therefore how can so many be wrong......


Certainly don't think you're an idiot. You're a teacher - you can't be right??

 

[ducky_poo]

I was merely emphasising the fact that so many left positives when it has been so easily 'uncovered as a scam' here. Therefore how can so many be wrong......


Certainly don't think you're an idiot. You're a teacher - you can't be right??

i think most of us can put it down to mere naivety. i for one didnt even think of this scenario

 

[ljandkg]

The ebay feedback system has been warped for a long time...not many buyers would leave negative feedback for the fear of getting negative feedback in return. And the likelyhood is that nobody would have thought you could create the exact same effect of a "proof" card by simple soaking a base card in water. So there is no requirement that any of these buyers are idiots. I am also not 100% sure that Pat soaked these cards to create them, especially since it is said that he also has the cardboard backs for sale.

Then the question becomes, what is a "proof card"? Is it a pre-production piece to show to the production team to check for quality etc? Maybe it is, and maybe that is what Pat's cards all are, but if there is no difference between an actual proof card and a standard base card put through a very simple process, then what are people to think?

What do you reckon the response would be if all of the 1000's of buyers of these proofs were shown the soaking process and then asked to resubmit their feedback for their purchase?

True but there's plenty of recent ones as well who are happy, like 100's in the last few months since the system changed.

As for the last question - I don't know, they may well be more suspicious.

Anyway, people have their minds made up on this. If they think he's a fraud then all evidence to the contrary is 'beside the point', if they think he's bought these as he says he has then their minds will be hard to change as well....

 

[ljandkg]

i think most of us can put it down to mere naivety. i for one didnt even think of this scenario

For thousands of people? That's my point....

 

[ducky_poo]

well atleast 3 guys who have been around here for years got em.

out of 1000 how many people with less trading experience would of got em aswell, who wouldnt know any better?

 

[ace e]

IMO if he was trying to rip people off he wouldnt be offering a refund (or he is doing it to cover up) but either way get a refund if you arnt happy.

 

[Billyhoyle]

where has offered a refund?

and I still think that 99% of the buyers will be oblivious to all of this anyway, so will not have to refund or receive the neg

 

[ace e]

On the HK thread.

 

[graham]

So for $37 a pop it wouldnt be worth your while to create these?
1994 FINEST "BLANK PROOF" DARRYL STRAWBERRY LA DODGERS - eBay (item 160266897033 end time Aug-03-08 19:00:29 PDT)

I've seen the next stage of this - the "Colour Proof" cards
93-94 FINEST "COLOR PROOF" SHAWN KEMP NEGATIVE SONICS ! - eBay (item 150277073831 end time Aug-03-08 19:15:03 PDT)

It is the next stage - where you end up with a silver backing on your finest card. If you carefully remove the silver backing you have yourself a "colour proof".

 

[Essellohbeebeewhy]

paypal just refused my charge back today. how do i get him banned from ebay? its really pi$$ing me off now..i did the right thing by him by telling paypal the cards were being sent back and because i didnt track it i got stung. i could have simply said he was a fraud and id have gotten the money back. im going to bid on all his cards and then not pay.

 

[aussiemjfreak]

 

[mwatson692k]

IMO if he was trying to rip people off he wouldnt be offering a refund (or he is doing it to cover up) but either way get a refund if you arnt happy.

I purchased a couple of Shaq ones from him back in May 08. After I received them I learned about boiling of the cards. I did the experiment myself and got the same results. I then emailed the seller back and informed him of my findings and he DID offer me a refund. But he also told me not to tell anyone about it. Because he is a memebr on Beckett and so am I. And like I said this was back in May 08 and he has solver around 1000 of these cards since then and made a profit of about $4k on these fake proof cards. So he knows what he is doing because I told him 3 months ago and he is still selling them.

So he IS ripping people off.

I recently posted a thread on BEckett.com, Hobbykings.com, and sportscardforums.com about this guy AGAIN. Because he is still selling them.


Matt

 

[chadjaja]

Well this thread wont be deleted here or hushed up so at least part of the hobby can hear about these 'rare' cards.

 

[ozflava]

this whole situation is ridiculous. I know a couple of guys have jumped to his defense (both here and HK) but peeps have been banned for a lot less! It's exactly as Cal said earlier.......when one of the "elite" do something (maybe the exact same thing that has been done before) it's down played or ignored (not on oztrader). That's what bugs me the most........every trader should be treated equally. This new information just adds fuel to the fire, so if action isn't taken on other sites it really isn't fair. Once the precedent was set, only fair to be consistent!