Hello Graham, I came across this thread after doing some detective work. Judging from the comments already posted here (10 years ago), I'm sure most of you will find this hard to believe, but I actually own two 1998-99 UD Game Jersey cards of Kobe Bryant, each containing a half of the NBA logo. After all the research I've done into these cards, I'm inclined to believe they are 100% authentic. However, proving they're 100% authentic beyond a reasonable doubt has become rather difficult for me. When I contacted Upper Deck they informed that because the cards are 22 years old and they no longer produce basketball cards, they no longer have the database to tell me if cards from 1998-99 UD game jerseys had randomly inserted NBA logo patches within a few of those cards. I noticed from this thread that you apparently know of someone, Chris Carlin, who might be of assistance to me. Could you please let me know his contact info so I may ask him a few questions about the cards I own? Thank you!
1997-98 UD Michael Jordan Logoman - Fake ?
- Thread starter SpriteAllNight33
- Start date
Hello Graham, I came across this thread after doing some detective work. Judging from the comments already posted here (10 years ago), I'm sure most of you will find this hard to believe, but I actually own two 1998-99 UD Game Jersey cards of Kobe Bryant, each containing a half of the NBA logo. After all the research I've done into these cards, I'm inclined to believe they are 100% authentic. However, proving they're 100% authentic beyond a reasonable doubt has become rather difficult for me. When I contacted Upper Deck they informed that because the cards are 22 years old and they no longer produce basketball cards, they no longer have the database to tell me if cards from 1998-99 UD game jerseys had randomly inserted NBA logo patches within a few of those cards. I noticed from this thread that you apparently know of someone, Chris Carlin, who might be of assistance to me. Could you please let me know his contact info so I may ask him a few questions about the cards I own? Thank you!
Geez this is an old thread. He is still at Upper Deck - this is from their website
Chris Carlin
Hobby Sports Media
(760) 929-3159
chris_carlin@upperdeck.com
Thank you so much Graham!
After all the evidence I’ve collected I’m personally 100% convinced this card and others like it from the year after are real. However, proving it to the biggest skeptics is rather difficult. This card in particular is the only card that was authenticated by both BGS and PSA as well as verified by Upper Deck as you can see in the BGS label and reconfirmed by Graham in this thread about 10 years ago. Therefore, it’s not a wild assumption to make that UD included other cards with the logo in both the 97-98 series as well as the 98-99 series. Unfortunately Upper Deck can no longer authentic any of these cards because they stopped producing basketball cards and no longer keep track of any past basketball cards in their database, making it near impossible to verify their authenticity to skeptics. It’s a real shame because I’m convinced I own two of Kobe’s most historically significant cards and many people will think I’m a con-artist if I try to sell them for what I believe they’re worth.
I have a few pics of them on my computer in raw form, they're currently at PSA being graded and hopefully authenticated. Once I receive them back from PSA, I will be happy share some pics, which should be in about 6 weeks. I'm not going to share any pics of them now to help keep them safe from any possible con-artists and because I don't want a bunch of people who are not completely educated on these cards to claim they're fakes based on what I've already seen with this Jordan card and cards like it in other threads like on Blowout forums. For this Jordan in particular, I don't see how people can still claim it's fake when it has been through two of the most respected grading and authentication companies as well has "verified by Upper Deck" written within the BGS case. For what it's worth, my dad bought the top half of our Kobes back in 2001 or 2002 and I bought the bottom half approximately 15 years later in 2016. People faking jersey/patches back in 2002 wasn't nearly as rampant back in 2002 as it may be nowadays. We were always too scared to send them in the mail to get graded because they're my dad's favorite possessions (I gave him the bottom half as a birthday gift). I really wish we had at least gotten my dad's top half graded and authenticated back when he first bought it because Upper Deck would have been able to verify it back then. Hindsight is 20/20 though. We never would have imagined that Upper Deck would not only stop selling basketball cards, but also destroy any records they kept about basketball cards that could be used for authentication.
the upper deck and psa authentication blocks are just stating the card itself it genuine, which IT IS. they are not authenticating the patch, just the cardboard. so if you had a patch of Dora the Explorer embroidered pajamas patch inserted in that card and sent it for authentication, from what i understand, the card will still come back as "authentic". because once again, they're NOT authenticating the patch, they're authenticating the actual cardboard card. if there was a signature, beckett or psa could authentic that. its just that they dont authenticate jersey or memorabilia patches inserted into the card.
does that make sense, or do i need to take another break from the hobby?? lol
does that make sense, or do i need to take another break from the hobby?? lol
Contrary to what a lot of people believe, grading companies authenticate both the card itself and the patch or jersey contained within the card. However, there have definitely been a few cases where fake jerseys slip through the cracks and grading companies will grade a card with an altered jersey. This then unfortunately makes people extra skeptical about a card that has a unique jersey in it even if it's graded and kind of taints the whole industry. However it's not just fake patches that slips through the cracks, it's everything. Check out all the examples in this link: http://www.sportscardradio.com/alert-fake-trimmed-altered-graded-cards-by-psa-or-bgs/ . For whatever reason though, unique jerseys are the only aspect that are looked at with an extra critical eye by a lot of collectors. I assume it's because it might be easier to fake for certain cards rather then adding an autograph or trimming a card. However for cards in both the Upper Deck 97-98 and 98-99 series, the jersey viewing window is extra small and tight compared to most other cards with patches, making putting in a fake patch near impossible without damaging the jersey viewing window of the card.
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You're mistaken Zombies, grading companies attempt to authenticate every aspect of the card, including the patch, despite the fact that some slip through the cracks. Feel free to call them or email and ask.
GarnettFan4Life
OZCT Supporter
If they do in fact attempt to authenticate the patch within the card then they’re doing a piss poor job at it.
All they would have to do is simply match up a serial number with having been with them and graded previously and say, ooh, this is different since last time. Yet, how many have we seen “slip through the cracks”.
Shocking. And somehow, whether through databases being kept by panini and accessible by grading companies (or the public too) they need to do better.
All they would have to do is simply match up a serial number with having been with them and graded previously and say, ooh, this is different since last time. Yet, how many have we seen “slip through the cracks”.
Shocking. And somehow, whether through databases being kept by panini and accessible by grading companies (or the public too) they need to do better.
I'm willing to bet anything you'd like that photoshopped example will be returned with a label saying "altered patch" or at the very least "questionable authenticity" or "questionable patch" and it will NOT be in a BGS encapsulation.
I agree there have been too many mistakes and they need to do a better job at quality control because it's really hurting the entire industry/hobby. Cards especially with a serial number that have pictures on the internet, there's no excuse for them to do such a bad job at not catching those. But it's not just Jerseys they screw up on it's everything. Look at all the examples of trimmed cards or cards with autos they've graded in the link I posted, it's gotta be near 100+ once you look at the links within that link. Does this now mean all of our cards could now be trimmed or altered? All grading companies have really dropped the ball and need to do better so people will once again buy graded cards with confidence.
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GarnettFan4Life
OZCT Supporter
Agree on the trimming also! Another tough issue they need to figure out; variation in card dimensions. If all cards MUST be x by y mm upon leaving factory then they must be x by y mm when measured at grading location. Easier said than done if panini is allowing cut errors plus minus