where to from here??

Billyhoyle · Jan 23, 2018

what does the future of collecting hold?

Without meaning to sound old (yes @kiwi_in_melb I am!) or the "back in my day...."

but it's made me wonder more and more lately - has the fun has gone from the hobby? Trading is all but gone and it's all about the $$$ - the return on your investment.

Back when collecting was simple you'd bust packs and be pumped if you hit Jordan/Magic base - now no one cares about base and it's only about hits (or prizm rookies!) and you were excited by base and not by how much you could sell it for.

You didn't really have a trade list you had a doubles list

And it brought collectors together cause I traded you the base you needed for the base I needed

Nowadays - people complain if the autos are not good enough or the prizm silvers aren't rookies etc.

Why???

I think it's a double edged sword - we the collectors demanded more autos and more game used, they provided more and now we complain about it being over-saturated and now it's so over the top it's almost too hard to come back from (panini has started trying with less game used).

Group breaks - whilst people try and buy their favourite teams - ultimately it is to hit big, lots of breaks you never even see the base and the days of set collectors seem to be long gone!

Ebay/Internet - it's made collecting accessible to a greater audience

What next???

* There has to be a return to set collecting
* the production of game used has to die down
* We the collectors need to begin looking out for each other (https://www.ozcardtrader.com.au/threads/official-pay-it-forward-thread.189868/)

How do do we get more life back on ozcards?

what do you guys think

or

is this me

GarnettFan4Life · Jan 23, 2018

Billyhoyle said:
I think it's a double edged sword - we the collectors demanded more autos and more game used, they provided more and now we complain about it being over-saturated and now it's so over the top it's almost too hard to come back from (panini has started trying with less game used).

Instantly thought that maybe we the collector were a part of the problem. Panini then compounded it with the greed of creating boxes/cases costing up to, what, $7,000??? Which then created the need for people to try and recoup some of that money ASAP to put back into buying PC stuff or moreboxes, and these expensive cases created the market for group breaks to share the cost burden so people try to go for the super hit even if it’s a team they don’t follow or have a player on it they collect,and the circle goes round and round.

And people who can’t afford this stuff or put up with the 26 parallel chase of their favourite player become disenchanted with collecting and try and think of a way to break the monopoly that Panini (unfairly) has. Maybe it’s a duopoly with UD but not really imo as the NBA-logo-less cards are super unappealing so it really may come down to the NBA card market needing some competition! Which looks like not happening for a few years after the new deal.tough situation!

taffster74 · Jan 24, 2018

It's the "investors" who have done this to our hobby. Or call them speculators. Whatever, people who are more interested in money that actually giving a rat's fuzzy behind about the true passion of the hobby. Trust me, i've had my fair share of blow-ups with investors over at beckett (in my more active days there). Result? I stayed, no reprimand and they left.

As to Panini.... i really hate it when people continually insist on it being an unfair monopoly, that Panini somehow forced Upper Deck and Topps out of the market. It is not and they did not. Upper Deck and Topps chose to not renew their license with the NBA. Panini have always said they would be happy to have some competition in the market. However, if Topps and UD are too wussy to meet the international marketing requirements of the contract that NBA Properties writes up .... who's fault is that? The $7k boxes? Didn't UD start doing stuff like that with their "Master" Collections and then carry it over to stuff like Exquisite and Black?

Yes, i would like to see a return to the old days of collecting, but ... I'm also a realist so i accept what we now have. I know i will never be able to get every single card from my PC want lists, but - really - that doesn't bother me. As long as i still have the same passion and excitement i had when i started 23 years ago, that's all that matters.

BeauZo · Jan 24, 2018

Great topic to bring up Andrew!

I think bball card collecting has evolved into a new beast. Most of us are constantly being tempted by group breaks, PC Cards, bargains across fb, ozct and eBay.

2 years ago I recieved a Giannis rc gold stained glass from a secret santa. it was by far the best mailday I've ever had. And it's probs worth a little bit but I haven't been tempted to sell it or trade it.. I know not all of us have the mentality to think that u can't sell a card because u didn't pay anything for it. But I think if we all started thinking about other people's pcs rather then our own maybe it might kick start something.

Some people might think this is a crap idea as that person will just sell it and then they make $. But I'm sure by now people have gotten friendly with a few friends over months/years chatting that the sentimentality of the card is worth more.

It's a great feeling recieving/giving a PC Card to somebody without there knowledge. Even if they don't pc somebody just send some packs. I think if we all did just a few things to think more of others it would make the hobby far more enjoyable.

Billyhoyle · Jan 24, 2018

taffster74 said:
As to Panini.... i really hate it when people continually insist on it being an unfair monopoly, that Panini somehow forced Upper Deck and Topps out of the market. It is not and they did not. Upper Deck and Topps chose to not renew their license with the NBA. Panini have always said they would be happy to have some competition in the market. However, if Topps and UD are too wussy to meet the international marketing requirements of the contract that NBA Properties writes up .... who's fault is that? The $7k boxes? Didn't UD start doing stuff like that with their "Master" Collections and then carry it over to stuff like Exquisite and Black?
\

Absolutely agree with this - seems like Upper Deck (particularly) and Topps are now looked at through rose coloured glasses (or maybe just newer collectors who don't remember) - whenever I read complaints about Panini, it's always "bring back upper deck they'd be so much better", however I think the majority of the current complaints were issues for many years and not just new to panini.

*redemptions - already an issue, in fact upper deck and topps are worse than panini in dealing with redemptions
*rainbows/parallels - Topps did it in 05/06 Finest - even Camby had a 22 card rainbow!

OutlawNinja · Jan 24, 2018

Have been wondering the same of late, quite obvious from watching the mailday threads, that everything has slowed down to a crawl.
Panini have saturated the market with product, endlesss parallels and sticker autos, that is what leaves me cold.
I guess I am just looking for something that reminds me of UD Black, Exquisite etc.
I for one am sick of the endless quest for wealth in our hobby, I collect for the passion not for the money.
I would gladly give my collection away (well already done that) before trying to make a profit off it.
People buying a card for $50 and flipping it for $150, personal preference I guess but leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

NBASIMMO · Jan 29, 2018

In the past year I have introduced 3 guys here at work into the hobby.

Sharing my passion, we have purchased about 15+ boxes, entered breaks and busted random packs from our local.

90% of the time we have bombed. 3 of the boxes where missing hits and half the time we are getting unknown low/end players.

The excitement is there for them busting packs, but the 90% chance of disappointment is casting a concerning shade.

After many discussions between us, it's the sting when you're lucky to get $20 back in value from a $200+ box that turns them away.

They have now mostly focussed on buying singles.

Just some thoughts, good discussion

drobfan8 · Jan 29, 2018

I think Collectors move with the times.

Set collectors are scarce and Panini checklists are missing the 2 biggest names in LeBron and MJ.

I think Panini.produces a lot of quality stuff.

I'm still waiting for Panini to produce a product, but package it in teams to cut out the group breakers.

Imagine grabbing a Lakers Immaculate or Prizm box knowing full well you'll only get Lakers stuff (may not work for low end teams) or a Spurs box etc

To me design is endless and the NBA market is growing. Our Hobby is nowhere near dead and the cream always rises to the top.

Sure there are some one-eyed UD, Topps, Fleer homers, but generally speaking people just want UD and Topps back as Panini is yet to really top anything UD has done and they've had UD's design ideas to steal and 8 years of improved technology to implement. Prizm is basically a rip off of Topps and the same tech as over 12 years ago.

The Hobby is fine. A lot of money being spent on ebay every week.

ReggieEvansPC · Jan 30, 2018

drobfan8 said:
I think Collectors move with the times.

Set collectors are scarce and Panini checklists are missing the 2 biggest names in LeBron and MJ.

I think Panini.produces a lot of quality stuff.

I'm still waiting for Panini to produce a product, but package it in teams to cut out the group breakers.

Imagine grabbing a Lakers Immaculate or Prizm box knowing full well you'll only get Lakers stuff (may not work for low end teams) or a Spurs box etc

To me design is endless and the NBA market is growing. Our Hobby is nowhere near dead and the cream always rises to the top.

Sure there are some one-eyed UD, Topps, Fleer homers, but generally speaking people just want UD and Topps back as Panini is yet to really top anything UD has done and they've had UD's design ideas to steal and 8 years of improved technology to implement. Prizm is basically a rip off of Topps and the same tech as over 12 years ago.

The Hobby is fine. A lot of money being spent on ebay every week.

Interesting you say this; I believe Panini did something similar to this with college flawless this past year.

exzibit3 · Jan 30, 2018

One of the biggest reasons why collectors bust boxes is because they are taking a gamble of getting a big pay day. And just like gambling, there's an addiction that comes with the high of winning against the odds. Some people are just more prone to getting hooked, just as they are with going to the casino.

AndrewG23 · Jan 30, 2018

taffster74 said:
As to Panini.... i really hate it when people continually insist on it being an unfair monopoly, that Panini somehow forced Upper Deck and Topps out of the market. It is not and they did not. Upper Deck and Topps chose to not renew their license with the NBA. Panini have always said they would be happy to have some competition in the market. However, if Topps and UD are too wussy to meet the international marketing requirements of the contract that NBA Properties writes up .... who's fault is that? The $7k boxes? Didn't UD start doing stuff like that with their "Master" Collections and then carry it over to stuff like Exquisite and Black?

UD and Topps didn't choose not to renew their licence, the NBA made it an exclusive deal and they were outbid by Panini. I can understand the NBA wanting to do this but I feel it hurt the hobby more than anything. No licenced autos of MJ and LeBron is making it easier for market manipulation of their older licenced stuff. Not to mention the current favourite for ROY has zero licenced autos too.

Panini has next to no quality control. They're lazy in their designs. Now I'm not saying that it wouldn't be the same if UD or Topps had the sole licence because it probably would be. Competition is necessary if the hobby is to change direction. Panini has done what's best for them, catering to the wants of collectors, mainly by producing products that are great for group breaks.

Billyhoyle · Jan 30, 2018

ReggieEvansPC said:
Interesting you say this; I believe Panini did something similar to this with college flawless this past year.

spot on - https://blog.paniniamerica.net/2017...-2017-flawless-collegiate-basketball-gallery/

Among the eye candy below, you’ll get an early glimpse at some of the unique college-specific briefcases featuring such landmark college basketball teams as Kentucky and UCLA.

Click to expand...

drobfan8 · Jan 30, 2018

ReggieEvansPC said:
Interesting you say this; I believe Panini did something similar to this with college flawless this past year.

Ah right, there you go.

I have to believe that Panini hate to see money left on the table. I bet they do this with NBA. And it kinda makes sense with the way people bust/collect these days. There's always the same teams getting snapped up first or bidded up the highest.

GarnettFan4Life · Jan 31, 2018

AndrewG23 said:
UD and Topps didn't choose not to renew their licence, the NBA made it an exclusive deal and they were outbid by Panini. I can understand the NBA wanting to do this but I feel it hurt the hobby more than anything. No licenced autos of MJ and LeBron is making it easier for market manipulation of their older licenced stuff. Not to mention the current favourite for ROY has zero licenced autos too.

Panini has next to no quality control. They're lazy in their designs. Now I'm not saying that it wouldn't be the same if UD or Topps had the sole licence because it probably would be. Competition is necessary if the hobby is to change direction. Panini has done what's best for them, catering to the wants of collectors, mainly by producing products that are great for group breaks.

I couldn't remember for sure or not if it was a bidding war, didn't think Topps and UD chose not to renew.

GoMoto · Jan 31, 2018

Unfortunately card collecting is now big business. Not everyone can afford to get into the higher end releases and the return in breaking cases / team shares can be average. Although when you do hit big it's pretty exciting!

I do remember the days of having a doubles list to trade (just gave away how old l am!) and it was fun to trade back then but times have changed.
Some major factors of reduced trading is due to time, monies spent, greed and cost of postage. For set builders it doesn't make sense to send $3 on postage for a few base cards.

To make collecting fun again, I've gone back to mainly collecting Australian releases. My kids and l can at least relate to the players and teams.
I can go to the local newsagent / order online and have the product reasonably quickly.
Cricket, A-league, Series 2 AFL and NRL elite are still affordable and you are still a chance to hit some decent cards.
The market is smaller for Aussie release but at least for me, its fun again and l wont break the bank.

If only they brought back a NBL release............. DAMM YOU NBL....give out a licence.

ReggieEvansPC · Jan 31, 2018

drobfan8 said:
Ah right, there you go.

I have to believe that Panini hate to see money left on the table. I bet they do this with NBA. And it kinda makes sense with the way people bust/collect these days. There's always the same teams getting snapped up first or bidded up the highest.

The only concern I could see, would be that "less desired" teams wouldn't sell, which could possibly lead to Panini not producing them. So you'd need to either have team boxes for only certain teams and not others, or have both regular boxes and team boxes; which would then mean that the regular boxes would be lacking hits from the "big" selling teams. Kind of a double-edged sword I guess. Either that, or create more parallels (sounds like something Panini would do...)

nichj99 · Jan 31, 2018

I’ve said for the last few years, as soon as Panini put effort into a design (not something thrown together by a 3 year old at kinder) I’d be more than happy to collect it as a set - base or otherwise. The creativity is lacking and too many distributors lose credibility by insisting its quality when anyone with half a brain can see that it is not.

That said, I think the base cards in the about to be released Status look amazing (for once).

I also think less is more in terms of rare cards. Not everything needs a parallel or a 1/1 attached to it. A simple unnumbered case hit is often the best release of the year - Studio down town, galactic revolutions, the first year Prizm white sparkle.

Billyhoyle · Apr 13, 2018

chatting with @Reignman40 and @nichj99 and it came up about being a player pcer in the current market and how essentially impossible it is!

Just did a bit of check
Marcus Camby Rc year (96-97 - so you could argue in the middle of the 90s boom!) - 107 cards
Donovan Mitchell - 569 cards (and still releases to come!)

so gone are the days where you could collect one of each card of your fave player - made me wonder also will this see people return to set collecting instead of pcing a player?

DWade Collector · Apr 13, 2018

Hobby is going from forums to Instagram

Billyhoyle · Apr 13, 2018

DWade Collector said:
Hobby is going from forums to Instagram

Absolutely been a shift to social media platforms I actually got sent a trade offers the other day and the guy linked me to his instagram the same way we used to use photobucket

where to from here??

Billyhoyle

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