The next Immortal- You Nomination and Why

AyiosYiorgos · Oct 5, 2013

Because Peter Sterling was the first Clive Churchill Medallist in 1986, rugby league historians decided, in September 2008, to work out who would have been medallists from 1954-1985. Norm Provan was chosen for the 1957, 1958 and 1963 Grand Finals
Not to mention as a coach he got the sharks to a GF as well

Clive Churchill medallists:

1954: Clive Churchill (Souths)
1955: Jack Rayner (Souths)
1956: Kevin Brown (St George)
1957: Norm Provan (St George)
1958: Norm Provan (St George)
1959: Peter Provan (St George)
1960: Monty Porter (St George)
1961: Brian Clay (St George)
1962: Ian Walsh (St George)
1963: Norm Provan (St George)
1964: Graeme Langlands (St George)
1965: Kevin Ryan (St George)
1966: John Raper (St George)
1967: Les Johns (Canterbury)
1968: Eric Simms (Souths)
1969: Dave Bolton (Balmain)
1970: Bobby Grant (Souths)
1971: Ron Coote (Souths)
1972: Dennis Ward (Manly)
1973: Bob Fulton (Manly)
1974: Arthur Beetson (Easts)
1975: Ian Schubert (Easts)
1976: Graham Eadie (Manly)
1977: Craig Young (St George)*
1978: Graham Eadie (Manly)*
1979: Steve Morris (St George)
1980: Steve Gearin (Canterbury)
1981: Bob O'Reilly (Parramatta)
1982: Brett Kenny (Parramatta)
1983: Brett Kenny (Parramatta)
1984: Peter Kelly (Canterbury)
1985: Steve Mortimer (Canterbury)

KyleP · Oct 5, 2013

Should be inducted i think...only reason he wasn't was because of all the other Saints players from that era.

the game rugby league · Oct 5, 2013

I am pretty sure that Brett kenny is the only player that has scored 2 tries in every grand final that he played in. Although the record books will show that he only scored 2 tries in every grand final except one 1 where one of his trys was disallowed by a blind referee. All good supporters of the game with a good eye know that the try that was disallowed was actually a try. BRETT KENNY for the new Parramatta coach and future immortal.

hobo · Oct 5, 2013

the game rugby league said:
I am pretty sure that Brett kenny is the only player that has scored 2 tries in every grand final that he played in. Although the record books will show that he only scored 2 tries in every grand final except one 1 where one of his trys was disallowed by a blind referee. All good supporters of the game with a good eye know that the try that was disallowed was actually a try. BRETT KENNY for the new Parramatta coach and future immortal.

I love the Kenny passion I'm a Bert fan but IMO he may have played a season or three too long which took the shine off his attacking brilliance. I would love to see some footage of his time at Wigan. If we are going to keep adding Immortals then I don't think we can look to far back and need to add "modern" (last decade or so) players, every 5 years or so. For me the next one will come from either; Meninga OR Lockyer.

Norman Provan is above an Immortal he's a God if you support the Red V.

Ross

footypugs2011 · Oct 5, 2013

Ron Coote and/or Norm Provan. I'm sorry but it's a Embarrassment that Norm Provan is on the NRL trophy yet is not yet a immortal. It's crazy that we 2 great players from the past who have not been made it yet a drug taking player like Johns gets a walk in.

Both these men who made the game what it is now should be there. Mal Meninga and other players should wait there time.

Brendan_B · Oct 6, 2013

I never saw Norm Provan or any blokes of that era play and there is no doubting the significant contribution he has made to RL both on the field and continues to do so off. He is part of the most enduring image RL has and there is no doubting that he is deserved of being honored but the reality is he was the 4th or 5th best player of that red V team and of that era (a point already made). The beauty about the 'Immortals' is that it is such an exclusive club and just that term refers to the person being much greater than the average. I don't think Provan quite fits that and I think it is a mistake to go back and add players from so far back. Look at the current immortals; each individual had such profound effects on the game and were able to dominate it in their respective era, my dad still talks about Chook, Gaz & Changa. As for Joey despite his off field indiscretions you cannot doubt his brilliance and dominance on the field. As a number 7 he was the best defender I have seen and had such vision in attack and freakish skill. Based on the 'Immortals' only being nominated for their on field exploits I think he deserved his nomination and spot. The only change I would suggest would be to consider off field achievements also. Mal has to be next, his on field achievements are phenomenal and if you include his efforts off the field... WOW!

sharkies4eva · Oct 6, 2013

AyiosYiorgos said:
Article by the goose

NORM Provan already holds a special place in rugby league history, his image forever etched on the NRL grand final trophy.
But should he become an Immortal too and join legends Clive Churchill, Bob Fulton, Reg Gasnier, Johny Raper, Graeme Langlands, Wally Lewis, Arthur Beetson and Andrew Johns?
His little mate Arthur Summons turned it into a public debate again on Thursday at the NRL grand final lunch, declaring Norm should be included and it was a "disgrace" that he hadn’t already been.
Provan played in 10 of St George's 11 straight premierships, four as captain-coach. He played a record 285 games for the club between 1951 and 1965, a record that was only broken in recent years by Ben Hornby.
He was obviously a wonderful second-rower and a great leader, but realistically the fourth or fifth best player in the superstar teams he played in
His name and credentials were discussed when I was on a judging panel last year to name the eighth Immortal.
The panel included the living Immortals, super coach Wayne Bennett, ARLC chairman John Grant, Roy Masters, former Rugby League Week editors Ian Heads and Geoff Prenter, along with historian David Middleton.
Provan’s name came up. And he had his supporters in the room.
But the general opinion was that if he wasn’t included last time, why now?
He had been overlooked every time the judges sat down.
And not everyone can be an Immortal. The more you pick, the less exclusive it becomes.
If we were going to turn the clock back, what about another old champion like Ron Coote, in my opinion the best player I’ve seen outside the Immortals.
Or how about Mal Meninga or the recently-retired Darren Lockyer.
If I’m on the panel next time around, I won’t be turning the clock back to the 50s and 60s.
Norm is already recognised as one of the 100 greatest players of all time, he’s in the Team of the Century.
It’s time to move forward.
Meninga or Lockyer will be at the forefront. They were out and out champions.
And in the next decade we’ll have more greats to consider like current players Cameron Smith, Johnathan Thurston and Greg Inglis. Maybe even Billy Slater too.
Norm Provan’s record
- Named in the second row in Australian Rugby League Team of the Century
- Named in the the NSW Team of the Century
- Appeared in 11 straight grand finals
- Won 10 consecutive premierships
- 19 appearances for NSW
- 14 Tests for Australia
- Inducted into Australian Rugby League Hall of Fame
- Named on the list of Australia’s 100 Greatest Players
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...s-phil-rothfield/story-fni3fh9n-1226732412133

Definitely a disgrace, Provan would definitely not look out of place alongside the Immortals

AyiosYiorgos · Oct 6, 2013

** Note John Stanley is a StGeorge supporter**

Written by John Stanley on SMH
http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-league/lea...005-2v0xx.html

When Arthur Summons arrives at ANZ Stadium on Sunday he'll carry the trophy that bears his name, but also, no doubt, the memory of his last grand final as a player in 1963. His embrace of Norm Provan is rugby league's most celebrated image. But it masks a deep resentment of a perceived wrong that can never be made right.

Summons and his Wests teammates have argued for 50 years that they were robbed. Legend has it that Noel Kelly declared in the rooms before the match that the fix was in. A second-half try to St George winger Johnny King is debated to this day but St George won their eighth successive title and Wests lost their fourth grand final in six years.

The St George players are equally adamant that they won fair and square. Wests have spent 50 years thinking they were wronged, knowing it's a wrong that can't be made right.

The game is full of mistakes that can't be rescinded. These are the moments players, coaches and fans mull over. The ''what might have beens'' that haunt the perpetrators or victims for decades.

For some reason Provan was not named an Immortal when the concept was started in the 1980s. Maybe it was politics or ignorance or a reluctance to honour too many St George players. Originally a promotion for Rugby League Week, the latest inductee was chosen last year by a panel of journalists, officials, coaches and past players including those already dubbed Immortals. One of the originals, John Raper, is embarrassed that he carries the title and Provan doesn't. He argued for Provan but the majority wanted someone younger, arguing it would be odd to reach back to the 1960s. I'm passionate about this because each year I host the St George grand final function. And each year the Provan omission is gently raised and the great man shows his class by changing the subject to how grateful he is for all the game has given him.

I didn't see Provan play but each grand final day, the feats of 50 years ago are recalled. It's been an annual masterclass in the great St George teams of the 50s and 60s. And a study of Provan.

To use today's benchmarks, as a player and leader he had the aura and authority of a Wayne Bennett, the athleticism and dynamism of a Gorden Tallis and the toughness and durability of a Paul Gallen. All rolled into one lanky frame.

Last week one of the panellists that overlooked him last year repeated his claim that Provan was the fourth- or fifth-best player in a superstar team and that his record of 10 successive premierships doesn't warrant the status of immortal. This was after Summons stated the obvious; that the continuing omission of Provan is a disgrace. Summons played against Norm Provan season after season. Most of the panellists just read about him.

In 2008, the NRL righted a wrong. The Clive Churchill Medal for best player in the grand final had only been awarded since 1986. A panel was assembled. Records were scoured and player-of-the-match award winners obtained retrospectively the Churchill medal in each grand final from 1954 when they became mandatory. Of the 10 grand finals won by Norm Provan, he was adjudged best on ground in three of them. The only triple winner of the Churchill medal. Not bad for a mid-ranked player in a team of superstars.

His record as a player and on-field captain is unequalled and it is telling that some of his toughest opponents, such as Noel Kelly and Arthur Summons, are puzzled and frustrated that a wrong that is so easily righted hasn't been. One day, sense will prevail and this inexplicable, embarrassing oversight will be fixed. Of that I am certain.

We may never agree on the Johnny King try and it can never be rescinded. But the Norm Provan anomaly can be fixed easily. And it can and should be done now.

John Stanley is the weekend breakfast presenter for 2UE and also appears on the ABC's Offsiders.

lvnmaoriboy05 · Nov 19, 2013

Andrew Johns (over rated wasnt even the best half of his era) should of never been an Immortal, Sterling & Langer are in front of him, at least they never had to play out of postion in the rep teams to get a gig, there records destroy Johns. Every member of the St.George teams that dominated during the 50s & 60s should be in. Meninga should be next no dramas

KyleP · Nov 19, 2013

Wrongggggggggggggggg

Ben Tone · Nov 19, 2013

lvnmaoriboy05 said:
Andrew Johns (over rated wasnt even the best half of his era) should of never been an Immortal, Sterling & Langer are in front of him, at least they never had to play out of postion in the rep teams to get a gig, there records destroy Johns. Every member of the St.George teams that dominated during the 50s & 60s should be in. Meninga should be next no dramas

Don't know about every St George player from that time being an immortal but i definitely agree with the Johns statement.

Overrated by a country mile.

Was awarded the Churchill Medal in 2001 when it should have been awarded to Ben Kennedy who tore Parra apart that night.

The media built Johns up to a point where everyone believed he was a god.

For me Brad Fittler dominated through the period he played and could change a game when it needed, i don't think Johns could do it the way Freddy could.

Carter · Nov 19, 2013

Norm Provan is my pick.

jonnov0007 · Nov 19, 2013

depending on how long the gap when they pick the next few.
Lockyer will be next, then Cam Smith, then GI.
and they should continue the hall of fame
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Rugby_League_Hall_of_Fame
for the great players of the game but are not immortal status.

thenamesgould · Nov 19, 2013

Ben Tone said:
Don't know about every St George player from that time being an immortal but i definitely agree with the Johns statement.

Overrated by a country mile.

Was awarded the Churchill Medal in 2001 when it should have been awarded to Ben Kennedy who tore Parra apart that night.

The media built Johns up to a point where everyone believed he was a god.

For me Brad Fittler dominated through the period he played and could change a game when it needed, i don't think Johns could do it the way Freddy could.

Could have easily gone to either player that night, but Johns made 31 tackles (most in the team), Kennedy made 19 and missed 9. Kennedy made 137 metres to Johns 60, but Johns also had two try assists, a line break, saved a try with his desperate rake on PJ Marsh, and kicked five crucial goals.

Fairly insane to say Johns wasn't a deserved winner.

ooneil · Nov 19, 2013

I think the caliber of people that picked Johns as an immortal know a little more than us dumb asses.

Ben Tone · Nov 19, 2013

thenamesgould said:
Could have easily gone to either player that night, but Johns made 31 tackles (most in the team), Kennedy made 19 and missed 9. Kennedy made 137 metres to Johns 60, but Johns also had two try assists, a line break, saved a try with his desperate rake on PJ Marsh, and kicked five crucial goals.

Fairly insane to say Johns wasn't a deserved winner.

Johns aimed up in defence, i'll give him that but Parra ran a lot of their attack his way.

He should have those numbers of try assists and goals considering he was their playmaker and goal kicker.

Wizzle · Nov 19, 2013

I didn't need the media to convince me "johns was god!!"

thenamesgould · Nov 19, 2013

Ben Tone said:
Johns aimed up in defence, i'll give him that but Parra ran a lot of their attack his way.

He should have those numbers of try assists and goals considering he was their playmaker and goal kicker.

You could write off anyone's achievements using that argument. Kennedy should have run for all those metres coz he was the Knights best running forward.

Ben Tone · Nov 19, 2013

thenamesgould said:
You could write off anyone's achievements using that argument. Kennedy should have run for all those metres coz he was the Knights best running forward.

True.

Just used to get very annoying watching a knights game and the commentators praised Johns for everything that happened on the field.

I mean if Newcastle would win a scrum and Johns passed it straight out to his 5/8 and they go through the hands and score out wide then they used to praise him for starting the movement.

Really, he is the halfback so who else was going to get the play started.

I can only remember one time where he dominated and that was the 05 Origin series.

Just my opinion but Andrew Johns was a very good player at best.

ooneil · Nov 20, 2013

Ohhh dear.........

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