eBay Rl cardz + darren lockyer + mix

These have to be some of the dumbest comments i have ever heard.

Shilling is fraudulent and illegal. Just because ebay charge fee's and i bid a particular amount on an item does not make it okay for a second.

I guess you all think speeding is okay unless you get caught (or kill someone).

If you guys think that there is nothing wrong with shill bidding then remind me not to bid on any of your auctions.

I totally agree that no matter what auctions you go to... unless the seller really doesn't care about the outcome, e.g. he is selling junk and is happy with whatever he gets.... then you will always find shill bidders in the crowd. They are playing on the weakness of people who is willing to go the extra mile to land something and lose track of the original game plan. But once again, who's to blame? nobody but yourself... because you put that hand up for the bid, you were reckless with your money. The shill bidders might have helped you along a little bit... but can we always blame the devil who is on your shoulder convincing you to get up to no good?

batboy said:

I know what you mean Sharkie...
But if it is worth $20... It's worth $20!!
And someone who wants it will know what it's worth and
expect to pay this much!!
I have found (in my limited experience) that the people who are most
offended are the ones who wish to buy some thing for $5, To infact on-sell it
for $20 (If you get my drift).. Some traders sping INEVITABLY to mind.
Which is hardly fair on the seller either.
My point is there is only ONE person that is responsible for how much I pay for a card.....
ME!!
If I regret the conditions of the purchase afterward... No else is to Blame.
If people don't like being shill bid... Then don't bid!!
Everyone bids at the last minute these days anyway, (I think to prevent this)
But even that is a pain at times... As it's often not convenient!!
On a different note, My best Mates old man is an Auctioneer... (Livestock, Farm Machinery etc)
They EMPLOY schill bidders.... Yeah, It's Illegal, immoral... And what ever else.
But it's been happening for a long time now.... And it won't stop soon!!
Most ebays schill bid with Private listings these days... they're getting smarter!!
I can't stress this enough.... If you pay more for something that you think it's worth,
IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT!!
If you don't... Why lose sleep about it??

---------- Post added 29-09-2011 at 12:15 PM ----------

Agreed mate.... But if you think there aren't schill bidders at housing Auctions,
you are gravely mistaken....
As ugly as it is... It is a stark reality.
once again... Have a limit, And Stick to it!!
Then everybody is smiling....

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I understand that this topic many of us will have to agree on disagreeing.

I think it is wrong. We all have to pay fees and you just have to factor it into the sale or cop it sweet. Shilling to cover fees is just an excuse. I think I've said it before but excuses are like a$$holes, everyone has one and they all STINK! An item I have 100's of I rarely get anyone take up a second chance cause they think they may have been shilled to that price.

To all the fence sitters on shilling because of fees...
Ebay have a new fee policy as of last week. Casual sellers (I assume this is most of us) get NO LISTING FEE for the first 30 listings per month. THIS IS FOR ANY STARTING PRICE IN ANY FORMAT! No need to start at 99c, just list it at what you want for it. You'll know the fees before hand so no underhanded behaviour required

...so... there should be no more need to shill

batboy said:

i have been contacted by other
traders trying to cut a deal on the final sale, urging me not to bid against them and vice versa,

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Can anyone explain how this may happen when you cannot see the other bidders identities?????

I didn't say I am OK with it.... But I am not going to lose sleep over it, Let it ruin my day, Or start a slander campaign banging on about it!!
As for my level of intellegence... I'm not the one comparing card trading, And the prices I choose to pay for it, to putting the life of myself and others at risk.
What I am doing is choosing NOT to get a bee in my bonnett about actions that are of no consequence to me, And something I have no control over... Everyone knows it happens... There are upteen threads about it on here!!
If someone is knows it happens (as you obviously all do..) And not smart enough to stop it from happening to them... Who's to blame???
And No... Because it is happening to someone else it doesn't make it OK either...
I've not heard from anyone yet who is an alleged victim(s) you're defending so sternly or thier circumstances??
REALLY OWIE... Get a grip!!
Genuine bidders control the market... NOT schill bidders... Ever heard the saying "Something is only worth what someone wants to pay for it"
If Chris still has the cards (As you suggest) Might I ask how has that hampered your life, in any way shape or form...
My take on it would be: At least you know where they are and around about how much he wants for them.
SERIOUSLY GUYS.... There are bigger hassles in the world. If this is todays biggest problem in anyones life... I'll swap right now.
NO it's not OK, And it's NOT allright... But it's hardly life threatening!!
WE ALL have the choice to be part of it... Good or bad!!!
Blaming Shill Bidders or bidding for something I have paid to much for is ridiculous...
When i am the one who types the figure in the little box.
I'm more Concerned about my team winning the comp next year...

ooneil said:

These have to be some of the dumbest comments i have ever heard.

Shilling is fraudulent and illegal. Just because ebay charge fee's and i bid a particular amount on an item does not make it okay for a second.

I guess you all think speeding is okay unless you get caught (or kill someone).

If you guys think that there is nothing wrong with shill bidding then remind me not to bid on any of your auctions.

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---------- Post added 29-09-2011 at 02:10 PM ----------

---

mischap123 said:

To all the fence sitters on shilling because of fees...
Ebay have a new fee policy as of last week. Casual sellers (I assume this is most of us) get NO LISTING FEE for the first 30 listings per month. THIS IS FOR ANY STARTING PRICE IN ANY FORMAT! No need to start at 99c, just list it at what you want for it. Y
ou'll know the fees before hand so no underhanded behaviour required

...so... there should be no more need to shill

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This is true Mischa... Although, Be warned.... In TRUE EBAY STYLE, You will be extremely surprised at how little it takes you to become a POWER SELLER!!!
Ebay wins again....

---------- Post added 29-09-2011 at 02:16 PM ----------

It's pretty easy for the guys who live on there...
They know your User name (Therefore can find your FB total)
and they know what your into... There is some snakes in this game.
And they follow up feedback to the sellers... Which thus far is not Private (unless the listing is Private)
But I have found experience to be the best teacher... Albeit an expensive lesson!!
And I have a blocked bidder list as long as my arm to prove it....
I DON'T DEAL WITH THIEVES.... (Except eBay!!)

razor77 said:

Can anyone explain how this may happen when you cannot see the other bidders identities?????

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batboy said:

Ever heard the saying "Something is only worth what someone wants to pay for it"

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Your right there - its just a saying - that has no basis in reality. If you buy my $10,000 car today for $20,000 its still worth $10,000 tomorrow.

Im not sure why i should not be outraged for someone that has been ripped off? I dont want to see this hobby go downhill because people keep getting ripped off.

This is fraud and its illegal - its pretty simple really.

ooneil said:

Your right there - its just a saying - that has no basis in reality. If you buy my $10,000 car today for $20,000 its still worth $10,000 tomorrow.

Im not sure why i should not be outraged for someone that has been ripped off? I dont want to see this hobby go downhill because people keep getting ripped off.

This is fraud and its illegal - its pretty simple really.

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... Interesting analagy Owen.
If I do buy your $10,000 car today for $20,000
Do you:
1: Take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for my stupidity...
2: Get publicy called out and shamed
3: Expect I should get a pose, And gang up on you?

OR....
Is it my own stud fault for paying twice what the car is worth??

That my friend, IS reality...

-Find me a card trader that HASN'T been ripped off by someone at some point....
IT HAPPENS TO US ALL!!
Is it right... Maybe Not, But it happens!!

We are all here, having learned lessons from good AND bad experiences!!
and it hasn't harmed the hobby in the Slightest...
The last time I heard someone say "I'm not into Footy Cards anymore because this one guy ripped me off this one time" was, well..... NEVER!!
Ya gotta live and learn buddy...
ONCE AGAIN.... I AM NOT condoning anything of this nature,
I'm simply saying... It happens, Be wary of it....
But time spent swelling on the past is time wasted in the future!!

---------- Post added 29-09-2011 at 02:51 PM ----------

ps: Nrl cards have been around for almost 100 years...
I doubt the hobby is going down hill anytime soon!!

---------- Post added 29-09-2011 at 04:31 PM ----------

Here's an interested point.....

Vendors have a right to bid in auctions:
Here is a description:

Vendor bid:
The vendor bid is primarily used to encourage bidding, whether at the start, middle or at the end of an auction
The vendor bid is not compulsory
Vendors have the right to use 1 vendor bid and the auctioneer must declare this prior to the start of the auction
The vendor bid should be an amount less than the reserve
The auctioneer announces the vendor bid on behalf of the vendor

Chris hasn't made any secret he operates from both accounts (I think advertising here pretty much announces it!!)

I think if it is "Legal" to do it at a $1.3m Mansion in Mosman... Surely it's Ok for a $100.00 footy Card

Ohh my god - just stop because your really embarrassing yourself trying to defend these actions.

When i am given notication during an ebay auction that a seller wants to lodge a "vendor bid" as with house auctions then i will accept it.

Apart from that you just cant escape the point that the activity of shilling is fraudulent and against the law.

and if you think this hobby has never gone downhill please refer yourself to the period of 1997-1999.

I note: You have not really answered ANY of my points of interest....
Pfft: Insulting my intelligence and worry about me embarrassing myself??
Someone asked how I would feel about getting schill bid on a house...
When apparently, Vendors bidding on their own property IS legal!!
And I'm guessing because ebay doesn't do it... Then it is probably not real or legal.
Enter a valid arguement... And I'll listen!! As for the downturn... Sure, It happened...
And it was directly because that one guy ripped that other poor innocent dude off that time!!
Wasn't because of the rival comps or a lack of productiuon or anything like that.
Don't let truth and fact get in the way of a good story/rant though buddy... Keep it up!!!
I got all off season.....

Vendor bid = legal and done with full knowledge of all bidders

Shill bid = illegal and done with the knowledge of bidders

A vendor bid is very different that having a mate show up at my home auction and bid up the price - thats illegal.

And seriously you think people will keep coming into this hobby if they are continually getting ripped of on ebay. Go and read some of the NBA collectors threads.

When you have a point of interest then i will answer it - in the meantime stop trying to defend the indefendable.

true... But it is a little hard to let potential birders know your intentions when you don't know who they are. Getting off point, my whole point ALL ALONG is: people bidding on cards are responsible for the amount they bid. Not comPeting bidders, not Schill bidders not Sylvester Stallone or the tree from avatar... If they put an amount in, and they win that card within said amount... They have made a conscious decision to bid to that amount. Regardless of how the auction reached this point... It is thier actions that have won them the card. And they are responsible!! Simple as that...
Finding out later they have been jibbed and whinging about is of zero substance!! Because with all thier lowly trickeries... not even Schill bidders can alter the bidding perception of someone else. Unless of course they are using the force... Which would make them Jedis... Which is kinda cool!! Yeah... I'd pay a few bucks extra for that....

Umm WOW step away from your desk for a few hours and come back to this, i don't even know where to start, just read the responses im speechless...
What Chris was doing was decietful pure and simple, his not even doing 1 bid on the item's he is doing multiple bids, he then leaves feedback,.... The thing is he shafting people on this site as well with his actions, how can you trust him next time he puts item's for sale.. Shill bidding is just wrong, you think the item is wirth $100, then start it at $79, not $0.99cents..

Mate I've not disagreed to this at all... not once!!
But the way it's portrayed here is like the poor innocent bidders had NO CHOICE but to get shafted....
My point the whole way along here has been...
EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIER OWN BIDDING!!!
Simple.....
If some one who disagrees with me can honestly come forward and give me a valid reason WHY
bidders are NOT responsible for the amounts they enter... i will apologise to all i have offended and
move on!!
I honestly feel this won't be the case....
i have never agreed, condoned or defended Chris's actions... What I have done, is said that it happens...
it's not nice, it's not comforting... but the fact remains it happens!!
it's a simple truth....
there is forum after forum and ebay info on it..... to keep you reading until the second coming of Christ.
But if the potential buyer doesn't handle the situation, And pays too much, I find it a little rich to blame schill bidding.
without thier stupidity... Schill bidding has no weight!! (of course i am talking extremes)
I also feel a little sorry for Chris who has been a super nice guy to all on here, and has not really been given a good chance to
explain the situation before everyone manned the Jack Hammers!!
Once again (As it seems to have been overlooked time and time again...) I don't agree with it, i am not defending it, I don't get involved in it
And it doesn't directly involve me....
But SURELY some of the owness is on the Bidders themselves.... SURELY????

Well to put it simply your point is completely f*ckin stupid and moronic.

I also had nothing but good dealings with Chris but he would have been on here and defended himself if he didn't do anything wrong.

Now im just going to send ebay an email letting them know that they should no longer ban shill bidding because it is actually the fault of the bidders. Perhaps where shill bidding is taking place they will ban the bidders instead.

I'm moronic... really??? i mean.... are you sure?? On the other hand....
I'ts really comforting to know that should I pay FAR TOO MUCH for any Item at any time in my life,
It will always be someone elses fault. And i can point the finger of blame.....
And when I complain.... I can say, But Owen said I (the purchaser) am No Longer responsible for willingly
choosing to pay far too much for this product... Lets start a riot!!
Mate.... You really are Joking aren't you... Was it the Sylvester Stallone Joke?? Rocky fan are we????
Maybe you should stick to the overpriced pamphlets... That I as the purchaser... Choose not to pay extraordinary amounts for...
CRAZY AS IT SEEMS....... that's just how I Roll!!

Ok so let me get this a Seller is allowed to bid his item up, until it reahes what he wants or even past a fair amount and a bidder just has to cop it because he put a higher bid then he thought it would reach, so can the bidder then have the chance to retract his bid after the auction has finished or is that not fair on the seller....

No... And It is Not what I am saying...
Mate, Why would anyone bid MORE than they are want to pay
Ever??
Regardless???
If this were the case and you are willing to pay $20, why would you bid $30...
It doesn't make sense.... my point has been misinterpreted from the begging post...
Or deliberately overlooked!! for the smell of a stoosh....
Either way.... the floor is yours!!

batboy said:

Maybe you should stick to the overpriced pamphlets... That I as the purchaser... Choose not to pay extraordinary amounts for...
CRAZY AS IT SEEMS....... that's just how I Roll!!

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That's your choice as a consumer. Just like I as one of the "tire kickers" who chose not to purchase your overpriced Tigers cards.

We have these choices to pay what we want for something - at least the price is not being manipulated by a shill bidder

I have plenty of times bid higher for an item, to make sure i win it, yes, if i win it i win it for the higher price, thats my problem, but thats what an auction is, it has rules and policy's and you would hope ethics, i bid the higher price i will pay, but why should i pay and cop it on the chin because the seller kept pushing it up, why should i be "punished" for playing by the rules and the seller can be let of the hook, thats my issue with all this...
I play by the rules other's dont....

Or even have the courtesy to send a return email, After someone goes to the trouble to load photos etc.....
ps: The tigers cards that are I have now sold for $450 (for the 2 off ebay)... If the barnes sells for $150.00 Then thats what... $100.00 more than you told me they were worth???
YEP!! that's right buddy..... Kick on Tyre boy....

ooneil said:

That's your choice as a consumer. Just like I as one of the "tire kickers" who chose not to purchase your overpriced Tigers cards.

We have these choices to pay what we want for something - at least the price is not being manipulated by a shill bidder

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---------- Post added 29-09-2011 at 08:21 PM ----------

I'm not implying you should Mick....
But that is also a double edged sword.
I would hope those outcomes are few and far between...

AyiosYiorgos said:

I have plenty of times bid higher for an item, to make sure i win it, yes, if i win it i win it for the higher price, thats my problem, but thats what an auction is, it has rules and policy's and you would hope ethics, i bid the higher price i will pay, but why should i pay and cop it on the chin because the seller kept pushing it up, why should i be "punished" for playing by the rules and the seller can be let of the hook, thats my issue with all this...
I play by the rules other's dont....

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