Panini's MAPP may not have been such a bad thing after all

postgsl · Apr 3, 2013

At least when boxes and cases went on pre sale you knew what the price was going to be come the release date.

Pretty sure the Select was $1495 when it was first advertised for sale, not even released yet and it's already been jacked up $400 in price.

That can't be Panini as they are no longer setting the price

drob50 · Apr 3, 2013

MAPP was only 'Minimum' price, so people weren't allowed to sell cheaper for the first weeks. It never stopped the price going up!

I blame people like DACW! I have no doubt they hold stock and list it as 'sold out' so that when it is back in stock, it can be sold for more, because it is so rare!

postgsl · Apr 3, 2013

drob50 said:
MAPP was only 'Minimum' price, so people weren't allowed to sell cheaper for the first weeks. It never stopped the price going up!

I blame people like DACW! I have no doubt they hold stock and list it as 'sold out' so that when it is back in stock, it can be sold for more, because it is so rare!

But at least the price did not go up before it was even released.

Yes I blame people like DACW as well, although watch Blow Job cards will have a price increase soon if they have not had one already

drob50 · Apr 3, 2013

postgsl said:
But at least the price did not go up before it was even released.

Yes I blame people like DACW as well, although watch Blow Job cards will have a price increase soon if they have not had one already

Yeah, them too! At least CBF has got the hook up now!

KB. · Apr 3, 2013

Pretty keen to order a box of this but hope the price doesn't change or the product sells out before I get a chance

taffster74 · Apr 4, 2013

Dacardworld don't hold back boxes as they are wholesale distributors - not only to their own B&M stores but also to other stores and retailers in the region. They can only price products they sell to the public gauged on what the demand is. And no, I don't work for them.

drob50 · Apr 4, 2013

taffster74 said:
Dacardworld don't hold back boxes as they are wholesale distributors - not only to their own B&M stores but also to other stores and retailers in the region. They can only price products they sell to the public gauged on what the demand is. And no, I don't work for them.

The way I see it, the demand of boxes should not change their prices. It should just make them sell out quicker. They don't pay more for them, they just sell higher.

If you go to Bunnings to buy a lawnmower, but they are out of stock, I bet you when they come back in stock, they will be the same price! Just because something sells out, doesn't mean you should start a price war and only sell them to the people that are prepared to pay the most.

Heafy83 · Apr 4, 2013

drob50 said:
The way I see it, the demand of boxes should not change their prices. It should just make them sell out quicker. They don't pay more for them, they just sell higher.

If you go to Bunnings to buy a lawnmower, but they are out of stock, I bet you when they come back in stock, they will be the same price! Just because something sells out, doesn't mean you should start a price war and only sell them to the people that are prepared to pay the most.

That would work but for one thing. There is unlimited supply of lawnmowers. There is limited supply of a basketball card product. Simple laws of demand and supply my friend.

drob50 · Apr 4, 2013

Heafy83 said:
That would work but for one thing. There is unlimited supply of lawnmowers. There is limited supply of a basketball card product. Simple laws of demand and supply my friend.

Yeah, I get that, but it is still greedy!

What about when Panini make a limited release Kyrie signed ball or something? They make /99 of them for $300 a piece. If they sell 50 of them in the first day, the next 49 still cost the same!

The wholesalers are taking all of the potential value out of a product by starting the price war!

People always complain about the lack of value in a Panini product, but it is partly because of this BS! As soon as a product look like it will have valuable hits in it, the retailers stack the prices until the cost/possible return ration is against you again! Happened with Fleer retro too!

Heafy83 · Apr 4, 2013

drob50 said:
Yeah, I get that, but it is still greedy!

What about when Panini make a limited release Kyrie signed ball or something? They make /99 of them for $300 a piece. If they sell 50 of them in the first day, the next 49 still cost the same!

The wholesalers are taking all of the potential value out of a product by starting the price war!

People always complain about the lack of value in a Panini product, but it is partly because of this BS! As soon as a product look like it will have valuable hits in it, the retailers stack the prices until the cost/possible return ration is against you again! Happened with Fleer retro too!

Yeah they make 99 of them for that signing session until he sits down for the next one.

Card stores make fudge all margins so have to take bigger pieces of the pie when they can. I'd like to see Panini's margins on their sales as well and compare them. You also have to ask the question with card stores prices hikes are they doing that as a result of it costing them more to source the stock as well. The more scarce it becomes and harder to find the more it will cost them.

I see nothing wrong with it but I'm a capitalist so am a huge fan of the natural laws of economics.

This also means you have choice and can go elsewhere. Thats the beauty of a free market.

drob50 · Apr 4, 2013

Heafy83 said:
Yeah they make 99 of them for that signing session until he sits down for the next one.

Card stores make fudge all margins so have to take bigger pieces of the pie when they can. I'd like to see Panini's margins on their sales as well and compare them. You also have to ask the question with card stores prices hikes are they doing that as a result of it costing them more to source the stock as well. The more scarce it becomes and harder to find the more it will cost them.

I see nothing wrong with it but I'm a capitalist so am a huge fan of the natural laws of economics.

This also means you have choice and can go elsewhere. Thats the beauty of a free market.

Yeah, I know what you are saying and I agree with the concept of it, but the extent is where I have a problem. Take Fleer Retro. It pre sold for $1200 a case, by release date, it was $1800 (50% increase), then in the next weeks, it was $3500 case. That is a 300% increase from pre sale!

If companies like DACW are NOT buying direct from Panini, then they are not doing very good business. They would be turning over massive quantities of their products and should be entitled to buy factory direct. If they are not, then someone in between Panini and DACW is the one doing the inflating.

Why does it take weeks to restock an item that is already produced? It is not waiting for more to be made, they have all been made already? So, SOMEONE is holding stock until the demand increases!

Heafy83 · Apr 4, 2013

drob50 said:
Yeah, I know what you are saying and I agree with the concept of it, but the extent is where I have a problem. Take Fleer Retro. It pre sold for $1200 a case, by release date, it was $1800 (50% increase), then in the next weeks, it was $3500 case. That is a 300% increase from pre sale!

If companies like DACW are NOT buying direct from Panini, then they are not doing very good business. They would be turning over massive quantities of their products and should be entitled to buy factory direct. If they are not, then someone in between Panini and DACW is the one doing the inflating.

Why does it take weeks to restock an item that is already produced? It is not waiting for more to be made, they have all been made already? So, SOMEONE is holding stock until the demand increases!

But that $1200 is a estimated/starting price. Its not a set price. You place a deposit on the item that gives you first dibs at it but it doesn't set the price unless they state it.

It can and has worked the opposite way too. Where they can put a higher estimated release price on an item and then through lack of demand the price drops. In fact the MAPP stopped this as sellers had to sell it for a set price.

Not sure if you remember 08-09 Skybox. That started at like $80 a box and at one stage they couldn't give them away for $40 a hobby box. Then the PMGs got hot and now you find it hard to get a box for less than $300.

drob50 · Apr 4, 2013

The MAPP was originally designed to stop the big guys from undercutting the LCS's. It was never aimed at keeping the prices of products high even when the demand dies!

I understand the way it works, but I don't think you can trust these companies to truly show stock levels. I believe someone manipulates it by delaying the restocking of products so the supply is not able to keep up and causes the "value" to go up!

drsma1 · Apr 4, 2013

The MAPP was a joke too. Its price fixing. Plain and simple. Panini (and others) should only be able to set their wholesale price. Retailers have the right to then sell it for what they want. If this means greatly inflated, due to huge demand and finite supply, then good luck to them. If they want to sell it at or below wholesale for whatever reason, they should be able to do that also. I dont know how the implementation of a MAPP was ever allowed. There must be different legislation in the US.

Panini's MAPP may not have been such a bad thing after all

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