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Is Roy Hibbert over rated??...your thoughts

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araiee

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Hi all...

just want to know your thoughts on Roy Hibbert, he had a break out finals series last year and was thinking big things for this guy...what happened???
He is 7'2", plays on a team where he could dominate if he wanted to , the pacers are pretty unselfish and pass the ball around well, so why doesn't he dominate and why does he only average under 7 rebounds a game?
In the game versus the heat today, he snagged 1 rebound in 30 odd mins of play, kevin garnett coming back from injury in the Brooklyn vs hawks game today snags 10 rebounds in 18 mins...
So surely away from the hype for this guy, he is over rated right?? where is his competition? the league doesn't boast any great centres at present, Dwight howard is what he is, a hugely talented player that has the tools to be something more than he is, who else is there? noah? brook lopez when healthy??...that's it, gone are the days of being spoilt for choice of having star centres...remember a time when we had shaq, drob, the dream, ewing and mourning...that was something...
Has small ball really killed the need for a dominate centre in basketball?
 
NBA critics make me laugh. Especially when someone put this into perspective with this comparison

Kwame Brown 2003-04: "Bust"
10.9 - 7.4 - 1.5 - 48.9% FG

Roy Hibbert 2013-14: "All-Star"
11.1 - 6.9 - 1.2 - 45.5% FG

Not an all-star .... Plenty of other better big men in the league
 
A1CardsandGaming said:
NBA critics make me laugh. Especially when someone put this into perspective with this comparison

Kwame Brown 2003-04: "Bust"
10.9 - 7.4 - 1.5 - 48.9% FG

Roy Hibbert 2013-14: "All-Star"
11.1 - 6.9 - 1.2 - 45.5% FG

Not an all-star .... Plenty of other better big men in the league
Click to expand...

I saw that too, but then an article I read by Bill Simmons on grantland brought me back to reality with the following:

Player A: 21.1 ppg, 6.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 43.1 FG%, 36.6 3FG%, 20.1 PER
Player B: 21.3 ppg, 6.9 apg, 3.3 rpg, 43.8 FG%, 29.1 3FG%, 21.6 PER

Player A? Kyrie. Player B? Devin Harris in 2009.

Basically, numbers aren't the be all and end all to a players efficiency in professional sport. They don't show things like leadership, help defense and the number of shots he alters per game. Those Kwame Brown stats are based on statistically his best season as a pro, and the other seasons aren't even close to that output opposed to Hibbert who has averaged those numbers for years now and probably peaked (don't forget Hibbert was picked 17th overall, not 1st).

My answer to the Roy Hibbert scenario is that you are only as good as the team mates around you, and frankly - the pacers suck right now. It's easy to kick them when they are down, but here are a few faults they are displaying, which directly or otherwise effect Hibbert:
  • They're not a good offensive team, when they were running hot they were still only ranked in the middle of the pack. The ripple effect means less double teams and open shots in the paint. Over their last 21 games (in which they've gone 8-13), they've scored 99 points per 100 possessions which is ranked 29th in league ahead of only the Sixers, or last if you are counting real standard NBA teams.
  • George Hill is more of a combo guard, he drives to the hoop only 2.7 times per game (the 2nd lowest in starting Point Guards) meaning Hibbert has to rely on post ups more than he'd like instead of the drive and dish
  • Tyler Hansborough now crashes through the big men in Canada
  • Paul George prefers to dribble side-to-side rather than in a straight line, meaning the defense isnt getting penetrated and usually results in an off balance shot from PG24 at the end of the shot clock.
  • David West can't bully his way through his opponent anymore, it means Hibbert's man isnt required to step over thus resulting in Hibbert being boxed out on most occasions
  • The perimeter guys, especially George and Stephenson, have a habit of randomly standing inside the 3-point line, too close to the paint, when they don’t have the ball. Stephenson loves to lurk along the baseline instead of spotting up in the corners, and he sometimes darts toward the rim at unpredictable times.
  • Chemistry: Bynum & Turner haven't worked out, meaning that rotations are a mess as neither have been able to have a preseason under their belt in the Pacers system.
  • Hibbert, Scola and Mahimi are slow decision makers, meaning the defense can crowd the paint and afford to not get burned by coming over to play the double team, while West can't jump high enough to play above the defense. The Pacers need to make the extra pass to open the defense up, but can't do so while George & Stephenson are inside that 3 point line, meaning the paint gets crowded or the pass gets picked off.

We know what we are getting with Hibbert, a big man who excels at shot blocking and defense whilst being limited offensively. Unfortunately, defense isnt something seen on the stat sheet. You are right in saying its slim pickings for big men in the league, and this is why Hibbert is an All-Star. If their was a bigger range to pick from, there is no chance of him having that on his resumé.
 
You pretty much have nailed it there....well done!!!
with all the points you make it does point to his short comings....but one aspect I still think he could excel in more with his size is rebounding...you cant tell me that someone who is that big, cant rebound the ball better than what he does, he has the timing to be a good shot blocker, surely he could figure blocking out and using his size to rebound???


nichj99 said:
I saw that too, but then an article I read by Bill Simmons on grantland brought me back to reality with the following:

Player A: 21.1 ppg, 6.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 43.1 FG%, 36.6 3FG%, 20.1 PER
Player B: 21.3 ppg, 6.9 apg, 3.3 rpg, 43.8 FG%, 29.1 3FG%, 21.6 PER

Player A? Kyrie. Player B? Devin Harris in 2009.

Basically, numbers aren't the be all and end all to a players efficiency in professional sport. They don't show things like leadership, help defense and the number of shots he alters per game. Those Kwame Brown stats are based on statistically his best season as a pro, and the other seasons aren't even close to that output opposed to Hibbert who has averaged those numbers for years now and probably peaked (don't forget Hibbert was picked 17th overall, not 1st).

My answer to the Roy Hibbert scenario is that you are only as good as the team mates around you, and frankly - the pacers suck right now. It's easy to kick them when they are down, but here are a few faults they are displaying, which directly or otherwise effect Hibbert:
  • They're not a good offensive team, when they were running hot they were still only ranked in the middle of the pack. The ripple effect means less double teams and open shots in the paint. Over their last 21 games (in which they've gone 8-13), they've scored 99 points per 100 possessions which is ranked 29th in league ahead of only the Sixers, or last if you are counting real standard NBA teams.
  • George Hill is more of a combo guard, he drives to the hoop only 2.7 times per game (the 2nd lowest in starting Point Guards) meaning Hibbert has to rely on post ups more than he'd like instead of the drive and dish
  • Tyler Hansborough now crashes through the big men in Canada
  • Paul George prefers to dribble side-to-side rather than in a straight line, meaning the defense isnt getting penetrated and usually results in an off balance shot from PG24 at the end of the shot clock.
  • David West can't bully his way through his opponent anymore, it means Hibbert's man isnt required to step over thus resulting in Hibbert being boxed out on most occasions
  • The perimeter guys, especially George and Stephenson, have a habit of randomly standing inside the 3-point line, too close to the paint, when they don’t have the ball. Stephenson loves to lurk along the baseline instead of spotting up in the corners, and he sometimes darts toward the rim at unpredictable times.
  • Chemistry: Bynum & Turner haven't worked out, meaning that rotations are a mess as neither have been able to have a preseason under their belt in the Pacers system.
  • Hibbert, Scola and Mahimi are slow decision makers, meaning the defense can crowd the paint and afford to not get burned by coming over to play the double team, while West can't jump high enough to play above the defense. The Pacers need to make the extra pass to open the defense up, but can't do so while George & Stephenson are inside that 3 point line, meaning the paint gets crowded or the pass gets picked off.

We know what we are getting with Hibbert, a big man who excels at shot blocking and defense whilst being limited offensively. Unfortunately, defense isnt something seen on the stat sheet. You are right in saying its slim pickings for big men in the league, and this is why Hibbert is an All-Star. If their was a bigger range to pick from, there is no chance of him having that on his resumé.
Click to expand...
 
In my eyes, yes his way over rated.
I just don't see a dominate center grabbing 1 rebound in a game playing 35min.
The series with Miami is what made him as big as he is but to me his always been not great.
If prefer Asik over him!
 
I'm not sure he's even rated highly by many.

He was known to play well against Miami because they have consistently struggled against bigs because of their lack of size, but Bosh, Birdman and Haslem have stepped up at key times.

He was an All Star purely because there's not that much else out there and he was on one of the better teams in the East.

I do believe it's a little unfair to compare his stats, mainly because Indy are a Defensive team and they use the ball on O, they're not a high octane team like others out there, add to that their guys ability to rebound the ball like P. George and Lance. Even D. West doesn't get enough boards.

In saying that, he really should be grabbing more boards than what he's done in the last 10 weeks.

The Pacers seem like they caught a lot of teams off guard last year, this year they're under the spotlight and scouted heavily, I'd say teams are doing a better job at getting Hibbert away from the hoop.
 
Hibbert's strong point is camping in the key and defending the paint. He is less than stellar in defending on the perimeter and when centers take him off the dribble as he isn't as agile and quick and he is limited offensively and doesn't have many moves. But on the flip side is that he was killing Miami in the Conference Finals last year because no one was big enough to stop him. He's having a down year but like they say, you can't teach 7 foot and he will be key to keeping Miami away from the rim. It seems that if Indiana can keep their turnovers down and stop the running game, they have a better chance of success over Miami. In transition is where the Heat feast on opponents and Lebron and Wade are near unstoppable in the open court. I feel people are discounting the Paces way too much and Miami will not get into the Finals easily.
 
It doesn't matter if you play small ball, you always need a reliable big to protect and dominate the rim.

Stretch 4 sure, but who's gonna do all the rebounding if all 5 guys are on the perimeter jacking up 3's?
 
Good discussion with Bones on The Starters today about DPOY Noah vs Hibbert - Noah guards more positions, all over the court, Hibbert with less lateral mobility is a beneficiary of the Pacers defensive scheme where the players are forced towards the big man guarding the rim.
Bends it in Noahs favour?
 
I never really saw what all the hype was in the first place! How can a 12 & 12 guy be better than guys like D-Cuz, Anthony Davis & K-Love that put up 20 & 10 every night!
 
WhiteyTheCelticsFan said:
I never really saw what all the hype was in the first place! How can a 12 & 12 guy be better than guys like D-Cuz, Anthony Davis & K-Love that put up 20 & 10 every night!
Click to expand...

Because those great players play for teams that aren't doing so great.

In a league where every news story seems to be based around how it relates to the Heat and their title chances, a team like the Pacers have a lot going for them, same conference, beating the Heat, competitive matches with them, taking them to the limit in the playoffs. People just love to analyse the matchup. It's easy for people to say that Indiana's good players match up with the Heats, Wade v Stephenson, Lebron v George, Bosh v West. So a young, 7ft center who has shown glimpses of his potential in the past (and has played well against them) gets a lot of credit because he doesnt have a strong match up to go up against when they play each other.

When it relates to the Heat, anyone who plays well against them becomes a hero to the media, as well as many Heat haters (which I would count myself amongst)

There are many better centers than Hibbert for sure, but he found himself in a great place at a great time and is probably being overhyped for it now as a result
 
nichj99 said:
I saw that too, but then an article I read by Bill Simmons on grantland brought me back to reality with the following:

Player A: 21.1 ppg, 6.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 43.1 FG%, 36.6 3FG%, 20.1 PER
Player B: 21.3 ppg, 6.9 apg, 3.3 rpg, 43.8 FG%, 29.1 3FG%, 21.6 PER

Player A? Kyrie. Player B? Devin Harris in 2009.

Basically, numbers aren't the be all and end all to a players efficiency in professional sport. They don't show things like leadership, help defense and the number of shots he alters per game. Those Kwame Brown stats are based on statistically his best season as a pro, and the other seasons aren't even close to that output opposed to Hibbert who has averaged those numbers for years now and probably peaked (don't forget Hibbert was picked 17th overall, not 1st).

My answer to the Roy Hibbert scenario is that you are only as good as the team mates around you, and frankly - the pacers suck right now. It's easy to kick them when they are down, but here are a few faults they are displaying, which directly or otherwise effect Hibbert:
  • They're not a good offensive team, when they were running hot they were still only ranked in the middle of the pack. The ripple effect means less double teams and open shots in the paint. Over their last 21 games (in which they've gone 8-13), they've scored 99 points per 100 possessions which is ranked 29th in league ahead of only the Sixers, or last if you are counting real standard NBA teams.
  • George Hill is more of a combo guard, he drives to the hoop only 2.7 times per game (the 2nd lowest in starting Point Guards) meaning Hibbert has to rely on post ups more than he'd like instead of the drive and dish
  • Tyler Hansborough now crashes through the big men in Canada
  • Paul George prefers to dribble side-to-side rather than in a straight line, meaning the defense isnt getting penetrated and usually results in an off balance shot from PG24 at the end of the shot clock.
  • David West can't bully his way through his opponent anymore, it means Hibbert's man isnt required to step over thus resulting in Hibbert being boxed out on most occasions
  • The perimeter guys, especially George and Stephenson, have a habit of randomly standing inside the 3-point line, too close to the paint, when they don’t have the ball. Stephenson loves to lurk along the baseline instead of spotting up in the corners, and he sometimes darts toward the rim at unpredictable times.
  • Chemistry: Bynum & Turner haven't worked out, meaning that rotations are a mess as neither have been able to have a preseason under their belt in the Pacers system.
  • Hibbert, Scola and Mahimi are slow decision makers, meaning the defense can crowd the paint and afford to not get burned by coming over to play the double team, while West can't jump high enough to play above the defense. The Pacers need to make the extra pass to open the defense up, but can't do so while George & Stephenson are inside that 3 point line, meaning the paint gets crowded or the pass gets picked off.

We know what we are getting with Hibbert, a big man who excels at shot blocking and defense whilst being limited offensively. Unfortunately, defense isnt something seen on the stat sheet. You are right in saying its slim pickings for big men in the league, and this is why Hibbert is an All-Star. If their was a bigger range to pick from, there is no chance of him having that on his resumé.
Click to expand...


Dude, talk about knowing your stuff!

Excellent breakdown!

Love to see people breaking down teams like this and not just looking at stats and making assumptions...

I think the Playoffs will show how much Hibbert can affect the other teams ability to get into the paint and that alone pays for itself even if he's VERY limited offensively!

I think the Pacers are set up for the playoffs and should still get to the ECF! As long as the Nets don't beat them and that's possible with how well their been playing lately!

If they can keep it together and beat the Nets in round 2, Miami isn't going to have the mental edge anymore....
 
I don't know about over rated - his defense off-the ball is pretty good and he is getting a good number of blocks per game ... typical Georgetown bigman in that respect. You have to remember though, the Pacers have never been a team that has had a reputation for having great big men. Probably their best was Jermaine O'Neal who spent more time at the PF position than at the center. If you want to talk true NBA centers that have been good for indiana ... Rik Smits who never averaged better than 14 points per throughout his career. Indiana is just not - historically - a good team for a dominant big man.
 
Maybe he played poorly because he was seen out in public before the game with Selena Gomez. Exclusive pics below...

image.jpg
 
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