How much has the cost of the hobby increased?

[chadjaja]

Been thinking about this with all the new high end stuff to collect vs what we had in the prime of collecting here in OZ.

Bear in mind a few factors.

Back in 1994 a Bill Russell RC booked at $1800US (now $100US). The Aussie dollar was at 50 cents to the US dollar and there was no eBay. My only avenue to purchase that card was a shop were I was FORCED to pay BV and a half. :shock: Meaning it would of cost me $2,700AUD :shock: and this is a raw one too!

Then take into account that most inserts booked fairly high and sold again at book and a half. Only later on were we lucky enough to get BV and a quater.

The average collector bought packs not boxes. Most of us never dreamed of busting a whole box.

With the cost of most inserts so comparitively high most of us had to rely on pulling them out of a pack or trading up for them.

This pack buying was a costly experiance with the odds for the decent inserts or player selection not great until the one per pack ones and that just killed the value anyway.

Even with the abundence of card shops the market was a lot smaller and factor in time and travel spent on chasing those key cards. I know many a saturday and Sunday by me and my brother were spent travelling across Melbourne going from card shop to card shop and market stalls etc.

So even with the price of high end cards today the average collector is far better off budget wise to get a decent collection of RC's, inserts, sets, autos and game used. Not to mention commons that are given away now compared to all being listed in beckett and again paying BV etc.

Sure the chance to spend thousands is there today but like my Russell example the chance to save thousands is there as well.

This works more for the average adult collector more than the kid but even then the kid today can collect pretty much the same thing as the high end collector can. It just comes out of a cheaper product and lacks low numbering etc.

I don't doubt for a minute you can spend more today but for the average collector I think it may have even got cheaper. Its just saying no to the amount of cards we buy now. Not like in the past where big card purchases were more further spread apart.

 

[hobbibox]

I'd say that I spend more on cards now as apposed to when I was collecting in the early 90's, thats probably because of more expendable cash flow. But the prices of insert/low numbered cards now (like your example with the russell) makes you wonder if the stuff we are purchasing now will be worth just as little in another 10 years time.

 

[lockymac]

Once again a well thought out and interesting post Chad.

I think that for the average collector, the nature of collecting has also changed, and that the cost of the hobby has increased as a result.

The points that you make about collectors in Australia previously having to pay Beckett and a half, and having high transport costs to access cards are all very valid and well made.
But the nature of the hobby has also changed dramatically. For the average collector, who principally collects cards of modern day players, there are just so many more 'high end' expensive cards.

If you are a player collector or a set builder, it is almost inevitable that obtaining those high end cards is part of the ultimate goal.

Back in the day an High End Card for me was a 93-94 Finest Tim Hardaway Refractor. Now, as a player collector Im scratching my head trying to work out how to afford a Magenta Printing Plate.


So, in that way, I think that the cost of the hobby has increased for most collectors.

 

[chadjaja]

But is it simply people more willing to pay for cards today. I remember seeing many a card display cabinet with some of what were the high end cards of the time and they didn't move as much etc.

I think we get better value for money now compared to then regardless of BV. The difference in BV is irrelavent to a degree as you can amass a huge PC of a player simply by sticking to cards that sell for less than $20 on eBay for which the most part will book for $40Us or so anyway.

I don't think back then there was such a division between collectors. There was basically kids that collected and Adult collectors with cash.

 

[lockymac]

I agree that we certainly get better value for money now.
And as a result, certainly for some collectors, the hobby would be cheaper now.

If you collected the Topps Base set from each year, or common cards and basic inserts of a player, then yes it's cheaper now than in the past.

But for player collectors and set builders, I think that the High end cards that form part of those checklists or sets now make the Hobby more expensive as a rule.

 

[Dream34]

The average collector bought packs not boxes. Most of us never dreamed of busting a whole box.

With the cost of most inserts so comparitively high most of us had to rely on pulling them out of a pack or trading up for them.

My trick to counter this was I saved up enough money everytime my dad went to the U.S to get a box or two(about $32 for a box), then with the boxes back then you'd get 2 complete base sets and usally nearly every minor insert set as well as so mojo cards. I would then sell off the other set of bases to pay for the box wich then got the ball rolling to buy more boxes . If a got double of inserts I'd sell them or trade them to get any other inserts I needed to finish of it completely.

Now of course when I got back into it a year and a half ago all these cards I needed were cheap as chips off ebay, which has kinda wrecked it but is alright in way at the same time.

I could never bring myself to spend more than $150 odd dollars on one card tho'. But I have definately up'd my spending to back in the day.

 

[yellows2k]

i think anyone that believes that cards will be worth anything in the future are dreaming. like any collectibles hobby, or art, or stamps, or coins or musical instruments. the item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
i have found out how difficult it is to convert my cards to cash. its a slow process, i have managed to sell off only a small part of my collection over the past few years. i have gotten some back, probably about 50% what i paid for it.
i understand that purchasing shares or investing in ur financial future isnt as fun, but at the end of the day, i gotta eat and cards wont do it.
i think im the resident grouch here.

 

[hobbibox]

everyone that knows me knows thats my saying...
"A card is only worth what someone will pay for it" so to a degree I agree with yellow.

 

[chadjaja]

Yeah but I value my collection with market value etc. Those that use BV are kidding themselves. If you plan on keeping your cards for the long haul then what you paid for them initialy is irelevant.

 

[justdabestcards]

The quality of the cards released are so much better now than in the 90's. Compared to 10 years ago, "value for money" is buying cards in today's market. BUT the NBA market is flooded with way too many products today, even more so than in the mid 90's when it was already flooded. This does help keep the prices down and allows a number of quality products eg numerous different "1/1's" every year.

I spend way too much. Perhaps the guy who just bought this from my ebay store does too :shock:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8740584035&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&rd=1

 

[clarkescards]

Also, Chad, back in the early 90s, each manufacturer only had one brand and released say 500000 boxes of that product (and hence flooded the market).

Now each manufacturer might have 10 brands that release 50000 boxes, so each set is a little rarer/harder to collect (on overage).

But make no mistake, card manufacturers (except for Fleer) are making more money off us these days than they were previously.

 

[Richo]

The quality of the cards released are so much better now than in the 90's. Compared to 10 years ago, "value for money" is buying cards in today's market. BUT the NBA market is flooded with way too many products today, even more so than in the mid 90's when it was already flooded. This does help keep the prices down and allows a number of quality products eg numerous different "1/1's" every year.

I spend way too much. Perhaps the guy who just bought this from my ebay store does too :shock:

[/URL]

Yet another way to plug your store eh Justin !!!

That being said i agree with what you said.........I think we get MUCH better value for money and as a result I think collecting has got cheaper for me. I remember the days of having to pay 1 1/2 Beckett

I sold a lot of my Jordans when the price peaked around 1996 so I made a few $$$ but haven't they dropped in value now.....eBay has made collecting cheaper for me along with the the Beckett no longer being adhered to so the only thing that makes it harder is the amount of cards out there. On that subject I agree with Justin (again) - The NBA market is flooded with way too many types of cards but that variety also makes it interesting ?!?

Just my 10c worth

 

[justdabestcards]

Nice comments Richo but...

Yet another way to plug your store eh Justin !!!

as I was typing my original post, an email popped up on my msn from ebay that an item had sold. Happened to be a fairly expensive card. Just thought I'd share as some may be interested and it was rellevant to the topic. Is that ok dude?
For the record, the guy got it at a good price but I'm happy with the sale anyway

 

[chadjaja]

Im not disputing print runs and the market is more flooded with product than ever. That has been the bone of discussion in some of my previous threads etc. This will ruin future value for most cards in the long run. Hence my move to vintage for the whole a fair while ago.

I was simply stating the prices we pay now. The main thing that sticks out to me also is that now there is a card or type of card at every price range. $1-10, $10-20, $20-50. $100+ etc. Where as in the older days there was commons, cheaper inserts and then Jordans and hot RC's with a lot more room between most of them.

Now an auto can cost 99 cents and $15,000 etc.

I also notice that a lot of collectors can have more a variety of cards. For eg collect mainly cheap cards but still have that one or two real nice and kinda pricey cards etc. That tended to happen less back in the day too. When younger collectors got a great card it was generally traded for a whole bunch of cards or even packs etc. That was my experiance in a card shop.

 

[justdabestcards]

Im not disputing print runs and the market is more flooded with product than ever. That has been the bone of discussion in some of my previous threads etc. This will ruin future value for most cards in the long run. Hence my move to vintage for the whole a fair while ago.

I was simply stating the prices we pay now. The main thing that sticks out to me also is that now there is a card or type of card at every price range. $1-10, $10-20, $20-50. $100+ etc. Where as in the older days there was commons, cheaper inserts and then Jordans and hot RC's with a lot more room between most of them.

Most vintage stuff was 'mass' produced too Chad, but at least there is only one set per every year or two.
Make today's #'ed cards, auto's and GU etc MUCH harder to get or take them away and we can have it like the old days. Something like Bazooka is perfect for the new "90's fashioned" collecter imo

 

[mattyj]

thats what i used to do...Pull a good card, instead of keeping it trade it for packs with bugger all chance of pulling anything good... lol what an idiot i was...

but i feel that for me collecting has gotten cheaper since ive gotten back into although im spending more? lol

i think maybe coz the guys im collecting arent hotly pursued so their cards dont get a lot of action in auctions (artest, darko etc)

but when i was last collecting i had no access to the net or anything so i had to buy everything from card shops etc, where as now with ebay and sites like this you have access to a lot more cards at better prices (singles as well as boxes and stuff) i remember paying about $100 for a box of 94/95 fleer (my only box i cracked in my first collecting stint) a very low end product, and yet for the same $$ we got a box of reflections which is a (mid range????) nice product with the chance of pulling some really nice cards

just my .10c

 

[Richo]

Hence my move to vintage for the whole a fair while ago.

I think this could be a good move (value wise) in the long run Chad

 

[chadjaja]

Most vintage stuff was 'mass' produced too Chad, but at least there is only one set per every year or two.
Make today's #'ed cards, auto's and GU etc MUCH harder to get or take them away and we can have it like the old days. Something like Bazooka is perfect for the new "90's fashioned" collecter imo

Ahh but vintage is condition sensitive and if you buy the nicer cards you are talking WAY rarer than todays cards

Look at some of my Celts stuff that is 'mass' produced as you say and you will find population reports of less than ten cards for 8's 9's and 10's etc. Like the Pettit I posted. There is no psa 10's or 9's even. Even mine is a 1/50 card at psa 6 with most raw in less than that conditon in raw state. Makiing it a RARE card of one of the greatest SF's off all time in a non mass produced set

 

[justdabestcards]

I'd say less than 5% of 'vintage' cards have been graded, so potentially in someone's garage or warehouse is sitting 100's or 1000's of raw 'vintage' cards that could potentially pull good grades. But like you say they are hard to find, as I estimate upto 60-75%(of production) of old cards are damaged or have been destroyed. I'm sure there are people with boxes/packs that will slowly come out over time and I'm sure there are many GEM vintage cards still hidden out there and untouched. It's a bit different with the newer stuff.

Not knocking old cards, I think they're great and am just stating the facts. I have a couple of complete 50 card sets of John Player & Sons Cricket cards from the 1930's featuring Don Bradman, the invincibles and some poms. All in mint condition and really like them.

 

[WoobieZarz]

Hobby cost has gone up quite a fair hike I'd say!

Not only are there people willing to spend more money these days, but the Card Companies KNOW this, and do their best to take advantage of this (Exquisite Collection, Ultimate Collection, Trilogy, etc).

Another reason I think, is the older stuff, the stuff Chad and others alike collect, Vintage stuff I'm talking about (that's pre-94-95 stuff), a LOT of it has gone into set collectors' homes, etc.

How many Bob Cousy RCs pop up on Ebay each Month, Chad???
And how many Chris Paul or Lebron James RCs pop up on Ebay each month, anyone?

Although there's "rarer" cards produced these days (cos they tell us so, with serial numbering), the REAL rare stuff has simply gone..... and when they surface, they demand such a high price as so many people are willing to pay for something they have sought after for, for so long.

Collecting these days, is definately a lot easier for some, but for others, it's not.

For me. It's not easy, but it's not hard. It's costly tho, I'll add that!