eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599.

A1CardsandGaming · Aug 15, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

Sorry to hear the continual bad news Matt. I am just wondering, did you sell it through .com or .com.au ? Is there a pattern for sellers being easily ripped by using one over the other ?

ozballer23 · Aug 15, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

Like Hairy, Nick & Ian, I'm leaning towards stopping dealing with eBay and I might just focus on local sites and markets.

GarnettFan4Life · Aug 15, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

A1_Cards_and_Gaming said:
Sorry to hear the continual bad news Matt. I am just wondering, did you sell it through .com or .com.au ? Is there a pattern for sellers being easily ripped by using one over the other ?

.com mate cause I wanted the wider market. I don't think it matters where you sell to it's just being unlucky enough to sell to someone who knows how to work the system ebay and paypal have in place atm.

A1CardsandGaming · Aug 15, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

GarnettFan4Life said:
.com mate cause I wanted the wider market. I don't think it matters where you sell to it's just being unlucky enough to sell to someone who knows how to work the system ebay and paypal have in place atm.

I wonder if there is a difference. Just threw it out there to see if someone has been keeping a track of that kind of thing ! whether most of this kind of thing has been happening more on .com or .com.au

nathanblack · Aug 15, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

Restricting to just AU must have its advantages as far as local authoities(or you) applying the pressure should things go wrong. Right now the 'buyer' has only dealt with paypal who are siding with him. He wouldn't know or care about the Oz police.

Although I 100% believe Matt and I'm appalled at the situation, I can see where Paypal are coming from.

The seller could still be the scammer, and it must happen. Sell cards for $200, send crap, paypal lodged(by buyer), refund, then seller lodges counter claim. Seller keeps cards(never really sent) and gets the cash.

So its not so much about Paypal as it is a problem with dishonesty in general.

lilreddevil · Aug 15, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

nathanblack said:
Restricting to just AU must have its advantages as far as local authoities(or you) applying the pressure should things go wrong. Right now the 'buyer' has only dealt with paypal who are siding with him. He wouldn't know or care about the Oz police.

Although I 100% believe Matt and I'm appalled at the situation, I can see where Paypal are coming from.

The seller could still be the scammer, and it must happen. Sell cards for $200, send crap, paypal lodged(by buyer), refund, then seller lodges counter claim. Seller keeps cards(never really sent) and gets the cash.

So its not so much about Paypal as it is a problem with dishonesty in general.

But Matt's got video proof of the buyer sending back 'the cards'.

bjs127 · Aug 15, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

Matt I cannot believe it. How much more proof can you possibly offer?

This is seriously laughable if it wasn't so serious - how the hell can Paypal turn a blind eye to what has happened? And then to threaten you with sending your account to a debt collector!! I am lost for words.

Can you get on the phone to these clowns instead of wasting your time by writing emails to these incompetent fools? You need to speak with the highest person you can get to, and as a community we need to bombard them with emails to show support for you but also to voice the concerns of the wider collecting community.

Do you have an email address for a contact at Paypal that we can all send something to to let them know there are a LOT of us worried that this type of scam may start appearing far more often???

MasterBlaster · Aug 15, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

The biggest problem is that Ebay wants to get away from Auctions in the worst way. That is why they are forcing the BUY it now option as they have much less issues with buyers and sellers. Ebay and Paypal know the stats, they keep great stats on how to make their business plan better to make more money. In the next few years, there will be no more auctions on Ebay as its not part of their long term business model.

You have to understand that ebay is about making $$$, not fixing issues. They could care less about you, your money and the scam going on, and the more you push it, the more it costs them and the more they are going to throw everything at you to force your hand to back off. Nice people hey!

I hate reading how this has transpired... its gross negligence on both Ebay and Paypal. The buyer is scum, should be infested with a rash that would never go away, but that wont happen, but Karma will. I know that wont make you feel better, but anyone who has read this knows that your not at fault and the system is letting you down...

I hope this gets resolved by one clear thinking person at Paypal/Ebay as they are one in the same.... MONOPOLY

A_Iverson_I · Aug 16, 2011

Re: Something Needs To Change - eBay and Paypal -The Big Scam plus ebay member syoung

anakinleo said:
Matt, you need to go public on this. Ring current affairs or today tonight on this matter. The last thing I want to see happen is that paypal the starts to climb all over you for that $200 and make your life miserable.

I agree. That and/or possibly a newspaper like SMH.

GarnettFan4Life · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

I had an email from paypal stating the documents I sent did not contain the required info and were not received in time.

So now they are flat out lying. I have a copy of the Police fax (which includes ALL contact info required and needed) and a copy of the fax sent receipt for 12 August (within the required time frame to send). The Police DO NOT give me a copy of the incident report, only an Event Number, it was when I explained what paypal required that the officer was good enough to type up the info on the letterhead and fax it for me. And it was over $200, and they were busy, 12 cars had just been vandalised at some University housing nearby in a rampage by a guy. Anyway.

My paypal case # is PP-001-382-490-658, not that they will disclose any info, but people voicing their concerns will be a good thing. I don't have a direct email contact but I will see what I can find, I have been replying through the Resolution Center.

Still waiting on a reply from ACCC. Will advise.

anakinleo · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

I can see what Paypal are trying to do......I got a feeling they are trying to drag this out as long as possible so that by the time you can come up with a case. Your rights for any refund would have been "expired" as per their terms and conditions.

MasterBlaster · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

Almost... Ebay and its holdings have taken it on the chin over the last few years in Australia. They are hoping that this does not cause an avalanche of instances where they will end up payout out. Ever notice why you get 15 free listings a month in Australia but the US has 30? Its because to do business in Australia is difficult as the laws and money needed for their lawyers to read the fine print is expensive. They only wish this would go away, however if the community is going to be served better, this needs to be taken to anyone willing to listen and shove it up their noses. They are playing games, and the evidence that you have to show you have done exactly what they asked for is paramount in winning this battle. The more people you get on your side in government, media and the community, the more chance you have to resolve this case. its not your money they are worried about, its the fall out of changing of a wrap around policy they have that is going to cause them issues as it might be illegal in many areas of the world.

Keep up the fight.....

anakinleo said:
I can see what Paypal are trying to do......I got a feeling they are trying to drag this out as long as possible so that by the time you can come up with a case. Your rights for any refund would have been "expired" as per their terms and conditions.

nathanblack · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

lilreddevil said:
But Matt's got video proof of the buyer sending back 'the cards'.

My point was that from Paypals point of view its possible 'the cards' returned really were the cards sent and the buyer is telling the truth. But its wrong that ALL the protection is with the buyer. It seems they dont really care about the seller but it takes both for any transaction. I don't think their is an easy solution(or any solution) while dishonest people live in society.

Really Paypal cant refund both claims, so they must decide who is most likely honest. They will never get it 100% correct, but right now they seem to just side with the buyer.

The video alone wouldn't convince me enough, but Matt also has email/ebay exchanges where the buyer asked for a discount and claimed one or two of the cards were missing. That is proof that atleast most of the cards sent were also recieved. And none of those cards were returned. Personally I would refund Matt in this instance but I guess they dont want a precedence to be set.

I would think by nature that buyers are more dodgy than sellers. Sellers need to build a good rep. Buyers can just open multiple accounts. So possibly siding with the seller would be a prefered default.

ooneil · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

I think they are just being ****s because they are a large corporation and dont give a **** about their customers.

The only reason ebay bought paypal is because at one stage nearly 50% of all internet fraud was occurring on their website and they were told by the Department of Justice to clean it up or else they would be prosecuted. That's when they bought paypal.

They dont give a **** about the customer - they just want the appearance of having processes in place to combat fraud (and of course use it as a massive cash cow).

4215cards · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

this things happened to me about 3 months ago. i sold 3 letterman patch auto cards hear to a buyer here in australia. i forgot his username now. but he claimed with paypal that he never received the cards when i sent them with all the other cards i sold and everyone else received there cards but him. so i lost my cards and my money because he chose to pay for standard delivery. from now on anything over 50 will be sent via registered post from me.

OutlawNinja · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

I have had the joy of making two paypal claims and got shafted both times.
First was a payment to a game server company, which they somehow lost and shutdown our server.
After numerous emails to them with proof of payment etc I got absolutely nowhere so I opened up a claim and....
You guessed it got shafted !!
Was only after all that I emailed the gaming company telling them I was a member of a large amount of gaming communities and would not rest until I had let everyone know what they had done.
I had a refund within 2 days.
And the other was so cut and dry it wasn't funny, caught same guy selling exact same card he swore he had sent to me...once again I got shafted.
So paypal claim = no fkn chance of getting anywhere.
I really hope you get somewhere Matt but I wouldn't hold my breath.

ozballer23 · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

Just because he was the only one who didn't receive it doesnt mean he was trying to rip you off! What proof is there that he is lying? We all know that the postal system is one of the most unreliable around. Yes paypal does cover the buyer more.
All this isn't fair on buyers who legitimately have claims against sellers. It's those petty few who ruin it for everybody.

4215cards said:
this things happened to me about 3 months ago. i sold 3 letterman patch auto cards hear to a buyer here in australia. i forgot his username now. but he claimed with paypal that he never received the cards when i sent them with all the other cards i sold and everyone else received there cards but him. so i lost my cards and my money because he chose to pay for standard delivery. from now on anything over 50 will be sent via registered post from me.

Quicksilver · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

Gaming communities you say, what ones?

hairyangryfella · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

GarnettFan4Life said:
I had an email from paypal stating the documents I sent did not contain the required info and were not received in time.

So now they are flat out lying. I have a copy of the Police fax (which includes ALL contact info required and needed) and a copy of the fax sent receipt for 12 August (within the required time frame to send). The Police DO NOT give me a copy of the incident report, only an Event Number, it was when I explained what paypal required that the officer was good enough to type up the info on the letterhead and fax it for me. And it was over $200, and they were busy, 12 cars had just been vandalised at some University housing nearby in a rampage by a guy. Anyway.

My paypal case # is PP-001-382-490-658, not that they will disclose any info, but people voicing their concerns will be a good thing. I don't have a direct email contact but I will see what I can find, I have been replying through the Resolution Center.

Still waiting on a reply from ACCC. Will advise.

Get on the phone Matt - hopefully if you explain slowly and clearly these clowns will finally get it.

You sent the cards sold on auction to this buyer.
He tried to scam you by claiming that some weren't sent, but then claimed for more than he had mentioned - after failing to extort money out of you he filed a claim through paypal for not as described.
The claim is dependent on him sending the items back, so instead he tried to cheat the system and sends back a bunch of worthless base cards - that you film opening.

How do they not get it??

ozballer23 · Aug 16, 2011

Re: eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599. Sellers Bewar

I agree with you hairy, but as someone has pointed out, how does paypal know that Matt didn't send those cards that he received back in the 1st place? That's why they sided with the buyer, and that's what he needs to prove to win this.
Hope you sort it soon Matt, hate to see you lose out on this.

hairyangryfella said:
Get on the phone Matt - hopefully if you explain slowly and clearly these clowns will finally get it.

You sent the cards sold on auction to this buyer.
He tried to scam you by claiming that some weren't sent, but then claimed for more than he had mentioned - after failing to extort money out of you he filed a claim through paypal for not as described.
The claim is dependent on him sending the items back, so instead he tried to cheat the system and sends back a bunch of worthless base cards - that you film opening.

How do they not get it??

eBay and Paypal -The Big Loophole Scam plus ebay member syoung5599.

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