COA

AyiosYiorgos · Nov 21, 2012

Just reading Matt's thread re the Panthers jersey and no COA, got me thinking, what is the legal position on a COA, do they hold any legal status...
I have plenty of jersey's that i have personally got signed and would be willing to sign a Statutory Declaration (Stat Dec) saying that all signatures are 100% etc, so would a Stat Dec hold more weight..
Have a look at this COA from Icon of Sports, this is for an Immortals signed jersey (not mine), would you be happy to receive this???

MarkTomo · Nov 21, 2012

Hey Michael
I wouldn't be happy with the above COA. Is it even signed by a representative of the company.
If somebody can forge a public figure's signature I am pretty sure they could kncok up a phoney COA.
I think a COA from a club or the NRL itself would be better than a private company.

AyiosYiorgos · Nov 21, 2012

yeah that COA is pathetic..
Would you be happy with a signed stat dec?

ooneil · Nov 21, 2012

Yeah imo most COA's are hardly worth the paper they are written on. I don't know the answer though.

In some US states it's a crime to issue a dodgy COA. We could use something similar here.

mischap123 · Nov 21, 2012

IMO a stat dec wouldn't make it any easier for me. The reason why is this.
If you deliberately lied on the stat dec, taking legal action would probably be more costly than the jersey itself. Then add on the drama and stress of it all. Most ppl would rather cop it sweet.

MarkTomo · Nov 21, 2012

Probably wouldn't mean much to me but legally a stat dec carries some clout. A couple of years ago a former judge lied under oath, which is effectively what a stat dec is, about a speeding fine and got two years in gaol.

Brendan_B · Nov 21, 2012

I remember buying a couple of old Dynamic auto's off eBay and the COA'S were super dodgy!! I don't think taking a stat dec out in relation to the authenticy of a signature would carry any extra weight unless a buyer was trying to claim the sig was forged. If possible getting an independent third party to witness any sigs would be the go.

sgt_pepper · Nov 21, 2012

next time you get a sig, just get the player to sign a quick stat dec aswell...

AyiosYiorgos · Nov 21, 2012

its hard enough to get them to sign anything let alone sign a stat dec as well

sgt_pepper said:
next time you get a sig, just get the player to sign a quick stat dec aswell...

king megator · Nov 22, 2012

That COA is rubbish.... It looks cheap and nasty....

footypugs2011 · Nov 23, 2012

Players won't signed a Stat Dec or anything on paper as they are worried it could be made into a contact of some sort. I remember one time i was thinking of doing that and a player told me no and said why.

AutographedMemorabilia · Nov 23, 2012

Ok a C.O.A is a legal document and will stand up in court but their is a difference.
Ok people may not like what I am about to say but this is the way it works.
A C.O.A from just a online business usually has a P.O.Box address if its to be found to be fake the police will not chase it up online.
A shop from a C.O.A comes from their if it's found to be fake the police will come and arrest you and close your shop because they know where to find you.
I do a cheaper C.O.A for cards because it's still a C.O.A some people what a C.O.A from their own protect and that is what it is.
When buying something if you don't beleive it's real you don't buy it,the company c.o.a if question I do not deal with them but that company is the real deal.

ooneil · Nov 23, 2012

Out of interest why do you think a COA will stand up in court? Has this ever been tested and have you ever known someone to be arrested for issuing a COA when it was fake?

Secondly (and dont take this the wrong way - im just using you as the example) if you paid me to get hold of a players autographs for you and then you do up the COA with your business on it who's liable if i forged the signatures?? Surely it would be you that's up the creek without a paddle.

1967Sharks · Nov 23, 2012

Thats a COA.

AutographedMemorabilia · Nov 23, 2012

ooneil said:
Out of interest why do you think a COA will stand up in court? Has this ever been tested and have you ever known someone to be arrested for issuing a COA when it was fake?

Secondly (and dont take this the wrong way - im just using you as the example) if you paid me to get hold of a players autographs for you and then you do up the COA with your business on it who's liable if i forged the signatures?? Surely it would be you that's up the creek without a paddle.

A C.O?a is a legal document because of it stats what it is wheather it's signed game worn or otherwise because you have stated what the item is and you have signed it yes you are liable.
With the other part of your question if you forge a signature and for example I put a C.O.A with it yes I would be 100% liable.
And as a matter of interests yes it has been tried and provan in the U.S and even on a smaller scale in Australia so the final answer yes it has been tried and provan.
This is why business are very carefull what they do because they don't want to end up in court but the funny thing is its not the court that where you get jugded it's other collector and dealers.

MarkTomo · Nov 23, 2012

ooneil said:
Out of interest why do you think a COA will stand up in court? Has this ever been tested and have you ever known someone to be arrested for issuing a COA when it was fake?

Secondly (and dont take this the wrong way - im just using you as the example) if you paid me to get hold of a players autographs for you and then you do up the COA with your business on it who's liable if i forged the signatures?? Surely it would be you that's up the creek without a paddle.

Hi Owen

I dont know of any cases in Australia were a certificate of authenticity has been tried in court. I was just reading an article that had said that 98% of all signed fakes in the US that go to trial are accompanied by a fake COA. In saying that I believe that a COA would have some credit in court providing you could prove who signed and supplied the COA. It does create some sort of paper trail.

The person who signed the COA would be the one responsible. They are signing to say that it is a legitimate signature. If they are unsure of its authenticity a COA they shouldnt be signing a COA.

Personally, I still dont think they are not worth a knob of goat s#t. Unless as I said before from a club or the NRL or similar. I would believe someone like Girds or Sarah or Troy (people that see the signatures regularly) before I believed a COA.

ooneil · Nov 23, 2012

^^^I tend to agree Mark. Having read this article I dont think COA's could be regarded as legal documents but they could certainly be entered as evidence.

"A legal document (or legal instrument) is formally executed written evidence of an enforceable act between parties such as transaction between parties, a relationship between parties such as an agreement, contract, obligation or right. In order to be enforceable against the parties a document must be fully executed according to the laws in that state."

I know in some US states (California is one) there are specific laws in regard to fake COA's but like you said the vast majority of them aint worth the paper they are written on. There is a fair amount of trust involved and its the reason I have little interest in having IP auto's in my collection.

AutographedMemorabilia · Nov 23, 2012

Yes but a C.O.A is a contact for a product between a buyer and a seller.

ooneil · Nov 23, 2012

AutographedMemorabilia said:
Yes but a C.O.A is a contact for a product between a buyer and a seller.

Are you 100% on that? Im not sure that it would be enforceable at law as a contract. For a proper contract I think there would need to be a little more involved.

Geeez we have some interesting conversations around here in the off season.

Rodman91 · Nov 23, 2012

When i put i always make sure i see a pic of the COA as there are so many fake ones out there. I want to see the COA has the name oF the person with signed the COA, address and phone number.

They i do a google search. If i cant find the company i wont buy the item

To me the icons of sport one is better than most out there.

PS a stat dec would do nothing for me i would just laugh at it.

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