Check out this absolutely disgusting card I pulled out of a $350 4 Card Box

kiwi_in_melb · Dec 20, 2019

@sgt_pepper exactly.

Flawless the highest of high end (allegedly) that panini releases would be the lowest number of boxes per case with 2. I would chalk that up as a learning curve in the hobby and move on. It's not exactly false advertising as it's not deliberately misleading, there was just some confusion. Card manufacturers using "player worn" as a guarantee would be much more dubious and misleading

I agree that the Kyrie shouldn't have made it to a repack product, That damage is pretty noticeable and shouldn't have made it through Panini QC let alone someone handpicking cards for a repack product.

Unfortunately as mentioned above Noir is a product that is known for it's chipping issues (black really shows any minor flaw) and I have seen much worse than this be pulled from fresh boxes. Also Noir was a $600 - $700 per box product on release (and went up since there) so some poor bugger would have got burned twice as much when they pulled it.

I also think that you were lucky that a full refund was given. If you pulled that from a panini box and dealt with them directly they would probably offer a replacement card (at best, probably try and sell you on their stupid points system) Similar to the laptop situation you mentioned above their first port of call would be to get you an undamaged replacement item as opposed to a refund. That would have been a fair request to ask for a replacement card, I would assume (i know you should never assume anything) as a good business practice they would have sent you something of higher value than the Kyrie

Finally there are plenty of good dudes around here so if you have any questions on anything to do with the hobby it is worth asking. We have all learnt from similar situations and were all new at some stage so can probably offer the best advice on 99% of the hobby

sgt_pepper · Dec 20, 2019

SpiderFan said:
My reasoning is that i received a faulty card and that there is a refund policy, as there is a refund policy then I am entitled to return the product, If you purchase a laptop and when you open the packaging the laptop is smashed to bits you can return it, this is the same case there needs to be a standard otherwise they can just add in cards that have placed through a shredder.

I'm new to this so i couldn't answer regarding the question of if a case has been released without boxes in them, I do feel they should at the very least say how many boxes are in a case as they could vary from 2 to 50. My thinking at the time was one of those suitcase looking products.

yes, but you couldve returned the kyrie and they wouldve sent you a replacement. thats what normally happens. if the kyrie wouldve been in perfect condition do you still feel as tho you couldve received a refund based on 'false advertising'?
im not sure it matters what a person thinks a description means? that would leave it open to way too many interpretations.
these are just my opinions obviously. again, kudos on getting the refund.

SpiderFan · Dec 20, 2019

sgt_pepper said:
yes, but you couldve returned the kyrie and they wouldve sent you a replacement. thats what normally happens. if the kyrie wouldve been in perfect condition do you still feel as tho you couldve received a refund based on 'false advertising'?
im not sure it matters what a person thinks a description means? that would leave it open to way too many interpretations.
these are just my opinions obviously. again, kudos on getting the refund.

If the cards were all in 100% condition and the description was 100% on point I feel I could have still legally gotten a refund. The first offer was a replacement box which I wasn't accepting, and I then advised them why I should be getting a refund, and I got the refund. I'm not here to game the system but I understand my rights. Personally I'll rather the discussion in this regards end here.

SpiderFan · Dec 20, 2019

kiwi_in_melb said:
Finally there are plenty of good dudes around here so if you have any questions on anything to do with the hobby it is worth asking. We have all learnt from similar situations and were all new at some stage so can probably offer the best advice on 99% of the hobby

Thanks, I missed this earlier. Appreciate that, my experience on this forum has been great so far, aside from the clear low balls via PM (which is to be expected) my experience here has been great where people have been kind in pointing me in the right direction. The discussions have been civil and I've found some nice cards for my PC (lol I didn't know what PC meant in regards to the hobby a couple days ago)

Boogieandthebrow · Dec 22, 2019

Did you say you purchased a box prior to this and was happy? Since you weren’t happy with your 2nd box sounds as if your using this damaged card as a scapegoat.

As you said yourself “even if the card wasn’t damaged you felt as if legally you could get a refund” for misleading sales tactics?

Why has it taken your 2nd time round to not be happy?

SpiderFan · Dec 22, 2019

Boogieandthebrow said:
Did you say you purchased a box prior to this and was happy? Since you weren’t happy with your 2nd box sounds as if your using this damaged card as a scapegoat.

As you said yourself “even if the card wasn’t damaged you felt as if legally you could get a refund” for misleading sales tactics?

Why has it taken your 2nd time round to not be happy?

Yes I'm using the damaged cards as a scapegoat 100%, if that card was in decent condition i personally wouldn't have felt justified in requesting the refund.

I didn't get my refund for misleading sales tactics nor did I get it for a damaged card, I got the refund because as a consumer I am entitled to the refund regardless of the condition / quality of the cards.

Are you Grayson from the place I got the cards from? If so it might be best to continue this discussion in private but I am ok to keep this discussion here if you like.

To answer your question, first time I didn't feel ripped off, second time I did. I'm sure most people will agree that paying $350 for 4 cards you will expect that the 4 cards will be in fair condition.

sgt_pepper · Dec 22, 2019

SpiderFan said:
I didn't get my refund for misleading sales tactics nor did I get it for a damaged card, I got the refund because as a consumer I am entitled to the refund regardless of the condition / quality of the cards.

if the refund wasnt for either of those two things, does this mean anyone who isnt happy with a break can just send it back for refund? you may have just revolutionized the way collectors bust boxes...

SpiderFan · Dec 22, 2019

sgt_pepper said:
if the refund wasnt for either of those two things, does this mean anyone who isnt happy with a break can just send it back for refund? you may have just revolutionized the way collectors bust boxes...

Yeah maybe I'm new enough to the hobby and I guess not blinded by what is considered the norm. Honestly I'll rather this discussion just end and will like to avoid specifics, If Grayson want's to continue with it that's fine, like I said earlier i'm not here to game the system otherwise I would have bought 10 boxes or placed another order once I got the refund. Simply I got what I felt wasn't fair and as such I looked to get it refunded within consumer rights, I'll hope people consider that fair.

Edit: just re read your comment and you noted break, this wasn't a break, I'm not sure you could refund a break (by break i mean online break where they open the packs online for you)

Boogieandthebrow · Dec 24, 2019

Your not here to game the system but you just admitted above you used the damaged card as a scapegoat for your poor box. That’s wrong in my books.

You say your new to busting which is cool, but you must be very new because up to the highest range of panini they come with all sorts of factory issues and will do nothing about it if you question it. But hey you’ve done bloody well to get a full refund, I personally would have replaced that card to it’s value and ushered you on your merry way.

Nope I’m not that Grayson, just happen to have the same name.

SpiderFan · Dec 24, 2019

Boogieandthebrow said:
Your not here to game the system but you just admitted above you used the damaged card as a scapegoat for your poor box. That’s wrong in my books.

You say your new to busting which is cool, but you must be very new because up to the highest range of panini the cards they come with all sorts of factory issues and will do nothing about it if you question it. But hey you’ve done bloody well to get a full refund, I personally would have replaced that card to it’s value and ushered you on your merry way.

Nope I’m not that Grayson, just happen to have the same name.

Ok, so basketball card business can work outside of real world laws and purposely conceal and sell damaged goods & I'm the in the wrong for following real world laws that will apply to any other industry. Like I said return policies exist and if there's a listed return policy it must be followed otherwise I would not have received my refund.

You would have tried to usher me with away with another shitty cards but I would have gotten my refund regardless as I understand return laws in the real sense and not in the same sense as you. Like I said I was offered a replacement and denied it, I was not then sent on my cherry way.

sgt_pepper · Dec 24, 2019

SpiderFan said:
Ok, so basketball card business can work outside of real world laws and purposely conceal and sell damaged goods & I'm the in the wrong for following real world laws that will apply to any other industry. Like I said return policies exist and if there's a listed return policy it must be followed otherwise I would not have received my refund.

youve said numerous times this is NOT the reason why you asked for the refund, so its irrelevant to this particular conversation. if the damaged card was the reason, then nobody wouldve thought twice about it. a bit extreme, but ok.
im also pretty sure youre over-reaching in your understanding of the consumer laws in australia. you can ask for a refund IF the product fails to meet up to the standards advertised. thats not a free pass to be able to return anything for any reason. if some places do refunds for any reason, thats policy not law.
they gave you the refund because of the damaged card. without the kyrie i highly doubt any money wouldve come your way. thats why replacements are usually asked for because people would just spend the cash back on another box.

Boogieandthebrow · Dec 24, 2019

Go buy a sealed box of panini and get a load of then centering, wearing and corners that come out of brand new product and I can guarantee if you complain they would nothing about it and they’re the pinnacle of this hobby.

SpiderFan · Dec 24, 2019

sgt_pepper said:
youve said numerous times this is NOT the reason why you asked for the refund, so its irrelevant to this particular conversation. if the damaged card was the reason, then nobody wouldve thought twice about it. a bit extreme, but ok. but its not the reason you have.
im also pretty sure youre over-reaching in your understanding of the consumer laws in australia. you can ask for a refund IF the product fails to meet up to the standards advertised. thats not a free pass to be able to return anything for any reason. if some places do refunds for any reason, thats policy not law.
they gave you the refund because of the damaged card. without the kyrie i highly doubt any money wouldve come your way. thats why replacements are usually asked for because people would just spend the cash back on another box.

How do you know why I was given a refund? Where you in on the phone call? Did you receive the message I sent them? I wasn't being responded to and my calls kept getting regretted until I noted how I'll be getting the refund, after that I was then getting responded to quickly. Perspective is key, I was in on the conversations, I got my refund and you unless you work from them were not across it. I keep telling you I'll rather it end here but feel free to read their returns policy and compare it to Australian Laws. (They have a 30 day return policy, no need for a defect for a refund, go speak to afterpay)

SpiderFan · Dec 24, 2019

Boogieandthebrow said:
Go buy a sealed box of panini and get a load of then centering, wearing and corners that come out of brand new product and I can guarantee if you complain they would nothing about it and they’re the pinnacle of this hobby.

Panini I'm sure has a better refund policy

The repackers also advertise no refunds for items on sale, which is 100% against the law. It looks like a copy and paste return policy, so yeah I'll suggest they update that.

sgt_pepper · Dec 24, 2019

SpiderFan said:
How do you know why I was given a refund? Where you in on the phone call? Did you receive the message I sent them? I wasn't being responded to and my calls kept getting regretted until I noted how I'll be getting the refund, after that I was then getting responded to quickly. Perspective is key, I was in on the conversations, I got my refund and you unless you work from them were not across it. I keep telling you I'll rather it end here but feel free to read their returns policy and compare it to Australian Laws. (They have a 30 day return policy, no need for a defect for a refund, go speak to afterpay)

yes, you keep saying 'lets end it here', but then keep trying to justify your stance.
whos refund policy are you talking about? the place you bought the box or panini themselves? like i said, someones policy doesnt make it law.
a quick search on the australian consumer laws will show you that a product needs to be not as advertised for you to be eligible for a refund.
i wasnt in on the call, but considering the rights that the manufacturers had, i assumed that was the logical/only reason they even considered it.

SpiderFan · Dec 24, 2019

sgt_pepper said:
yes, you keep saying 'lets end it here', but then keep trying to justify your stance.
whos refund policy are you talking about? the place you bought the box or panini themselves? like i said, someones policy doesnt make it law.
a quick search on the australian consumer laws will show you that a product needs to be not as advertised for you to be eligible for a refund.
i wasnt in on the call, but considering the the rights that the manufacturers had, i assumed that was the logical/only reason they even considered it.

As you were not in the call you have no stance to try and defend them.

The repackers return policy, and in this case it does. If you offer a 30 day return then you must abide by that, you can't say we offer a 30 day return policy as long as you return the item in the state you received it but then choose not to follow through on your returns policy.

Do you agree that companies need to follow through on a stated 30 return policy or will you like the challenge that?

SpiderFan · Dec 24, 2019

sgt_pepper said:
a quick search on the australian consumer laws will show you that a product needs to be not as advertised for you to be eligible for a refund.

I'm more than happy to argue this, please stick around and share snippets of the law.

Other reasons:
- Damaged items (scratched noted as an example of damaged)
- Within the stated return time stated on the returns policy

sgt_pepper · Dec 24, 2019

SpiderFan said:
As you were not in the call you have no stance to try and defend them.

The repackers return policy, and in this case it does. If you offer a 30 day return then you must abide by that, you can't say we offer a 30 day return policy as long as you return the item in the state you received it but then choose not to follow through on your returns policy.

Do you agree that companies need to follow through on a stated 30 return policy or will you like the challenge that?

well, i specifically referenced the differences between a policy and law, so of course i agree. thats why i asked who offered the return policy.
but you also made it sound like a 30 day money back guarantee, no questions asked was the consumer law in australia, which its not.

sgt_pepper · Dec 24, 2019

SpiderFan said:
I'm more than happy to argue this, please stick around and share snippets of the law.

Other reasons:
- Damaged items (scratched noted as an example of damaged)
- Within the stated return time stated on the returns policy

no need to give other reasons. the only reason this was interesting is because you said you didnt need a reason...
youre the one that started telling people about the law and your rights. i was just trying to clarify your statement.

SpiderFan · Dec 24, 2019

sgt_pepper said:
no need to give other reasons. the only reason this was interesting is because you said you didnt need a reason...
youre the one that started telling people about the law and your rights. i was just trying to clarify your statement.

I don't need a reason, after what is discussed do you still think i need a reason? I didn't even know that was a reason until I felt they were ignoring me so I got in touch with afterpay and they advised me on the 30 day returns policy. 100% if you send me a damaged card and are hanging up on my calls I'm going to follow through and look to get a refund.

Check out this absolutely disgusting card I pulled out of a $350 4 Card Box

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