Best AUS XI Of AllTime

I might way into this one with my view on Ricky Pontings batting ability.

He is in my opinion, and I am not a Ponting lover by any means, the most naturally talented Australian batsman I have seen in my almost 40 years of watching cricket.

People should enjoy this guys batting over the next couple of years while he is still around, we may not ever see his like again.

I am not knocking either M or S Waugh, Border, Gilchrist, Walters or Ian Chappell when I say the above.

PS I might add anyone who thinks Greg Chappell was anywhere near as good a cricketer as Ian is only reading statistics. There is no comparison, Ian was the toughest player to wear the green and gold in my time and thats something when you have seen the toughness of both Border and S Waugh.

I used to know an old guy who was a member of the SCG who told me he saw all Bradmanns career, the last few years of Trumpers, and he told me the best he had seen was McCartney, followed by Trumper, then Bradman. He described Trumper and McCartney as freaks and Bradman as a machine. He said you always knew Don would make runs, but when the other 2 did it was a real treat.

COMPO said:

Beat these.
Victor Trumper Arthur Morris Don Bradman Greg Chappell Allan Border Keith Miller Adam Gilchrist Shane Warne Bill O'Reilly Dennis Lillee Glenn McGrath and Howzat as 12th man.

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Would happily be 12th man to that side! Think of all the sigs I could get...

pacer67 said:

I might way into this one with my view on Ricky Pontings batting ability.

He is in my opinion, and I am not a Ponting lover by any means, the most naturally talented Australian batsman I have seen in my almost 40 years of watching cricket.

People should enjoy this guys batting over the next couple of years while he is still around, we may not ever see his like again.

I am not knocking either M or S Waugh, Border, Gilchrist, Walters or Ian Chappell when I say the above.

PS I might add anyone who thinks Greg Chappell was anywhere near as good a cricketer as Ian is only reading statistics. There is no comparison, Ian was the toughest player to wear the green and gold in my time and thats something when you have seen the toughness of both Border and S Waugh.

I used to know an old guy who was a member of the SCG who told me he saw all Bradmanns career, the last few years of Trumpers, and he told me the best he had seen was McCartney, followed by Trumper, then Bradman. He described Trumper and McCartney as freaks and Bradman as a machine. He said you always knew Don would make runs, but when the other 2 did it was a real treat.

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Great post Pacer, good reading in there. Yes I think Ian Chappell is a little harshly done by - people look at the fact Greg averaged 53 and Ian "only" averaged 41 and think Greg Was by far and away the better player - but my old man played state cricket with both and says Ian was the toughest competitor he ever saw - ruthlessly guarded his wicket with his life and was, as he puts it, "a real tough hard bastard" - meant in a nice way, as he has plenty of time for both Ian and Greg.

Martin Chappell (Greg, Ian and Trevor's old man) was similarly a very hard and tough individual. Dad told me a great story once about when he bumped into Martin at Adelaide Oval one day during a Shield match back in the late 70s.
He said to my Dad, "have you got that son of yours using a hard cricket ball yet?"
Dad replied "no Martin, not yet."
Martin said "Well, how old is he?"
"He turns 4 in January", replied Dad.
"Oh", Martin sighed. "Too late!"

Can't imagine there being too many cheap dismissals or half volleys in the Chappell's back yard when they were growing up!!

Great reading Pete and Dan I am not old enough to really weigh into the debate on the Chappell's because I didn't have the luxury of seeing them play. Picking Ian in my side was purely based on what I have heard from older family members which backs up what you have both said!

I have read bits from this book
Cricket Web - Cricket Books: First Tests
where the chappell's talk about the hardest cricket they ever played was in their backyard LOL Greg talks about Trevor chasing him down the road with an axe!

So yes Brad, I don't think there would have ever been any cheap dismissals!

---------- Post added 25-11-2009 at 12:48 AM ----------

Totally agree about Ponting too Pete! Some of the Ponting haters won't realise what we had until he retires, which sadly, will only be a few years away! He is the highest aussie test runs scorer, 2nd best test average of all time, and all the while he has had to cope with the demands of playing 3 forms of cricket. And at the end of the day his first love has always been test cricket and the baggy green, which he has bled for on many occasions (most recently in England)... Unfortunately, with some of the newer players, it seems like T20 and the glamour and money associated with it, comes first over playing test cricket for your country!

---------- Post added 25-11-2009 at 01:02 AM ----------

Mamboblue72 said:

You obviously never saw him play! he played for all the good things the Baggy Green stands for! Quite simply the toughest fairest captain we ever had! And will be remembered long after he is gone!

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Just to add to this, from my experience, if I had to pick one batsmen to bat for my life, it would be Steve Waugh. He didn't posess the same natural ability that his brother Mark had (an ability Mark often wasted), but he always fought like a dog, and produced results when the chips were down and the odds were against us!

I might just add my favourable comments about Ian Chappell were in no way meant to downgrade Greg Chappell who was magic to watch and a worthy player in anyones all time best Aussie XI, and I might add a much underrated captain who is often critised for one poor decision in a one-day match.

fascinating reading pacer & bjs.
I'm starting to agree with the comment above mine stating one isn't really qualified to judge a player's ability without physically witnessing them play. In accordance with this: the following is my All-time XI who I have witnessed live ...

1. Michael Slater
2. Matthew Hayden
3. Ricky Ponting (VC)
4. Dean Jones (remember him?)
5. Steve Waugh (C)
6. Simon O'Donnell
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Craig McDermott
10. Terry Alderman
11. Glenn McGrath

12th. Michael Clarke

thanks

This is a great thread and there's nothing wrong with constructive debate, its subjective and we'll never agree.

I am a Ponting fan, a Waugh fan....heck a fan of anyone wearing a baggy green in fact, one thing that hasn't really been brought up is the fact that the Chappell / Waugh (early career) batted without helmets against some of the most fearsome bowling ever seen and also they never had the luxury of padding their stats by making 380 against an Iceland under 12b side (hey I like Hayden he's in my list).

For toughness I can't go passed Bruce Laird. I watched him score one of the most amazing tons ever v West Indies I think at the WACA...every second ball he got hit (poor technique) but hardly flinched, I remember recently seeing the Great Desmond Haynes interviewed and he said Bruce Laird was his hero...hows that for a wrap.

Having myself played in both helmet and non helmet days facing the like of Lawson / Pascoe / Benard / Skillbeck / Dwyer / Jones / Steptoe etc (many names you wont have heard of but I can assure you helmets IMO add (at my level anyway) 10-15 runs to your average......so forget stats as the be all and end all of selection criteria.

Keep the posts coming its a great read.

Ross

You make some great points Ross - not only helmets, but tiny thigh pads, thinner pads, poorer quality gloves and no chest protectors or armguards!

I also think another big factor is that the quality of bats have improved out of sight. Greg Chappell spent most of his career using a scoop that weighed about 2 pound 7, whereas now the bats are almost twice as thick and weigh 2 pound 12 but pick up like a 2 pound 7 bit of willow. The way they hit sixes now is a far cry from the 70s and 80s.

Imagine fielding at point with Gordon Greenidge hammering cut shots with a present-day bat!! He would take your head off!

I think when it comes to captaining both gents have their strengths and weaknesses, were/are both fantastic batsmen. But one thing which is amazingly obvious between the two captains are................................

Steve never lost two bloody ashes series!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nor at lords!!!!

I love Punter, will become Australia's greatest batsmen but will leave the game with a few questions about his captaincy, of which he will be rembered as a good one.

Hehe I like this thread Liam
Some very interesting reading! Heres my team:

Hayden (Why break something up that works, particularly if it happens
Langer to be the best there ever was)
Bradman (Of course)
G.Chappell (just ask Richie!)
Border (Thats a brick wall of a middle order for opposition
S.Waugh bowling attacks!)
Gilchrist (Any arguments there?)
B.O'Reilly (Two spinners?
Warne Theyre playing at the SCG aren't they?)
Lillee
McGrath (Sorry Thommo)

Now in defense of Steve Waugh I have a few things to say.

Matty76 said:

Steve Waugh played for Steve Waugh.

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Of cause he played for S.Waugh Matty. S.Waugh was part of the Australian side and he played for the Australian side! How instumental was he in bolstering the lower orders confidence in scoring runs? He had special training sessions for the lower order that specifically focused on BATTING! I admit there is an element of self interest for him in that, being a middle order batsman, but selfless acts are pretty hard to find. Anyone remember Gillespie's double century? It was against Bangladesh but a double century is a double century, no?

bjs127 said:

Couldn't agree more Matty.

Ponting has batted almost all of his career at 3 - Steve hid down the order!

Imagine what Ponting's average would be if he came in every innings when the ball was 50 overs old!!

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First of all Steve did not 'hide down the order'. He was intoduced to international cricket as an all-rounder, and the traditional spot for it is in the middle order. So he spent some time there before he was dropped. He had always been a bit of a slogger, being overlooked for the U/19s Aussie team for hitting the ball in the air too much, even though he topped that batting averages and aggregates and put in a handy effort with the ball!
He was reintroduced to the side for the series against the Windies in 92/93as the number 3 batsman. The problem was, in his absense he had worked hard on his technique, focussing on survivability, removing the hook and pull from his game. He scored 228 runs @ 25.33 in this series (Boon was opening the batting).
I think his new style forced the selectors to move him down the order and from the next series onward he would stay at number 5 for the most part.
Now with all this said (sorry this is getting long) anyone who knows anything about batting knows that your number 3 batsman has to be a 'strokemaker' with all the shots and can keep the scoreboard ticking over in any situation. With that in mind do you really think S.Waugh would have been a suitable choice? The selectors knew he wasn't. When Boon retired ( in the same series that Ponting made his debute interestingly - @ No6) they fiddled around with Langer, Elliot, Blewett, Bevan trying to find a combination that worked.
As far as Ricky Ponting goes, well...he didnt start batting at number 3 for Australia until Slater finished up after the 4th ashes test of 2001. In the 5th test Hayden and Langer made their first opening partnership (158) with Ponting at number 3 (followed up in the next game in the 1st test against N.Z with 224!) Up until this point Ponting had been number 6 for the majority of his test appearances.

bjs127 said:

Hey Bomber, no question S Waugh was the better captain - although fair to say he also had a fairly handy team at his disposal too!

I am not a SW hater at all - he does (and should) go down as one of Australia's all time great batsmen. I just think he took the selfish approach when Boon retired and Australia were really struggling for a #3.....he should have stepped up to the plate and taken ownership of the #3 spot, and for whatever reason he didn't.

However noone other than Bradman has a higher Test average for Australia than Punter. I think history will mark Ponting the better batsman - because he will score more runs than Steve Waugh, at a higher average, and having batted in the toughest position in the batting lineup there is, also with lesser players around him and therefore with more pressure. Ponting's average as captain is higher than before he was captain, which not many captains around the world (and in history) can lay claim to.

The debate of captaincy is a different argument altogether.....and Steve Waugh will win that argument every time!!

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I will say this: Ricky and Steve both had very similar beginnings in test cricket. Both were introduced very young, struggled, dropped and reintroduced bigger and better (Ricky made 127 when he got his second chance). They were both free-hitters when they started out but omission forced them both to make some changes to better suit them to test cricket, AND slot into a position that was needed at that time. Australia was lacking stability in the middle order and they filled these positions perfectly.
However, I think S.Waugh had to change his technique very drastically compared to Ponting, which left Ponting the more versatile. As far as raw ability goes I think they were on par. So yes I would rate Ponting the better batsman, but Steve the better cricketer.

/end rant

Hehe sorry guys got carried away there

howzat said:

Would happily be 12th man to that side! Think of all the sigs I could get...

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And the free drinks.

Fantastic read Andy (caughtgully) !! Obviously your another lover of this great game and your snap shot of the early days of Steve and Ricky is pretty spot on….. thanks for sharing this with the younger guys !!

This is how I sum up cricket and have pretty much lived my life by it….

Cricket is not a sport…. Its my religion !!

I am sure there are plenty of you that nodded your head in agreeance after reading that !!

I have been reading this thread with much interest but up until today, have decided to refrain from adding my 2 cents worth…. Due mainly to the fact that I am a Steve Waugh tragic. As Steve was making his debuts for NSW and then to Australia, I was in my high school years and its fair to say that Steve was my “Superman”… my “Hero”. I endured much banter from my fellow cricket playing mates but this was nothing compared to the way my family gave me stick. Dad would always say “ One day your going to marry Steve”… I tried to convince him that he had his genders wrong but he was convinced otherwise….. thank god I proved him wrong! The ironary of this is that I will be married 10 years next year to my wife and she is the second biggest Steve fan behind myself that I have ever met !! So through all the torture and friendly banter… there was a bit of “Waugh” factor in it after all. Steve and cricket in a funny way bought my wife and I together…. Two cricket tragics !!

Sorry… went off topic…lol back to my two cents worth !!

My Greatest Australian Team of all time

Matthew Hayden
Arthur Morris
Ricky Ponting
Don Bradman
Allan Border
Steve Waugh
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

12th Men
Bill O’Reilly
Greg Chappell

Waugh v Ponting debate

Both Steve and Ricky will go down as greats of our game. There will always be the age old debate of who was the better batsmen, captain or general cricketer. Like all of you, I have my opinion but the fact is I selected them both in my “greatest team”… and the simple reason is because cricket is a TEAM game….

Pride of the Baggy Green !!

The baggy green cap worn by Australian Test players is an icon. It is the pride, passion and in effect the history of Australian Cricket.

I think that Mark Taylor summarised it up the best in his forward in the book - The Baggy Green - The pride, passion and history of Australia’s sporting icon

“The baggy green is revered by everyone with a connection to Australian cricket.” He goes on to say, “being awarded a baggy green is the ultimate for a cricketer in Australia and I am proud to have ensured the significance of this badge of honour is appreciated by everyone who loves the game in Australia and abroad”

Long live the baggy green !!!

Cheers
Damian :v:

aussiecricketer said:

Fantastic read Andy (caughtgully) !! Obviously your another lover of this great game and your snap shot of the early days of Steve and Ricky is pretty spot on….. thanks for sharing this with the younger guys !!

This is how I sum up cricket and have pretty much lived my life by it….

Cricket is not a sport…. Its my religion !!

I am sure there are plenty of you that nodded your head in agreeance after reading that !!

I have been reading this thread with much interest but up until today, have decided to refrain from adding my 2 cents worth…. Due mainly to the fact that I am a Steve Waugh tragic. As Steve was making his debuts for NSW and then to Australia, I was in my high school years and its fair to say that Steve was my “Superman”… my “Hero”. I endured much banter from my fellow cricket playing mates but this was nothing compared to the way my family gave me stick. Dad would always say “ One day your going to marry Steve”… I tried to convince him that he had his genders wrong but he was convinced otherwise….. thank god I proved him wrong! The ironary of this is that I will be married 10 years next year to my wife and she is the second biggest Steve fan behind myself that I have ever met !! So through all the torture and friendly banter… there was a bit of “Waugh” factor in it after all. Steve and cricket in a funny way bought my wife and I together…. Two cricket tragics !!

Sorry… went off topic…lol back to my two cents worth !!

My Greatest Australian Team of all time

Matthew Hayden
Arthur Morris
Ricky Ponting
Don Bradman
Allan Border
Steve Waugh
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

12th Men
Bill O’Reilly
Greg Chappell

Waugh v Ponting debate

Both Steve and Ricky will go down as greats of our game. There will always be the age old debate of who was the better batsmen, captain or general cricketer. Like all of you, I have my opinion but the fact is I selected them both in my “greatest team”… and the simple reason is because cricket is a TEAM game….

Pride of the Baggy Green !!

The baggy green cap worn by Australian Test players is an icon. It is the pride, passion and in effect the history of Australian Cricket.

I think that Mark Taylor summarised it up the best in his forward in the book - The Baggy Green - The pride, passion and history of Australia’s sporting icon

“The baggy green is revered by everyone with a connection to Australian cricket.” He goes on to say, “being awarded a baggy green is the ultimate for a cricketer in Australia and I am proud to have ensured the significance of this badge of honour is appreciated by everyone who loves the game in Australia and abroad”

Long live the baggy green !!!

Cheers
Damian :v:

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Great reading Damo!

Confessions of another Steve Waugh tragic

Steve Waugh was batting in 89 when I was 8 and slipped out of the MCG for a wee only to realize you can't get back in! Started crying, then this friendly policeman took me back to my Dad and brother. Pretty sure he made a century.

By 1993, had the classic Steve Waugh cover drive poster for Gunn & Moore proudly displayed on my bedroom wall.

To this day my SIGNATURE is modelled on Steve Waugh's. (beat that!) I just found it to be very elegant with economy of lines. (much like his batting)

As a youngster I was reknowned amongst my family for 'taking off' the player's batting and bowling styles. Steve Waugh's back foot cover drive was the favourite, along with the Boonie Leg Glance and the Mark Waugh on drive. By 2002 I was studying theatre at university

From the early-mid 90s, I read all the Steve Waugh diaries, Ashes diary, South Africa diary...you name it...

phew thats about it. Hence my impassioned defense of the man...

1st Test evenly poised you ripper!

Sammy