A 'Hobby' that has lost its way.......

very nice post heath.

i agree with AJ, the nba is part to blame.
imo, licences should be given on a per product basis.

eg. panini gets 6 licences for 1 season (equally 6, hopefully well designed products)
UD gets 4 and topps 2, for instance sake. competition will the better and by rights the cards should be better designed and released..

gu should be limited to 50-100 and autos /25. logomen are 1/1, as with tags..
none of this topps sig ed nick young autos /6406429583283
or bobby brown autos @ 1 per box.
gu /799 thats not guarenteed. Game used cards should be just that. GAME USED.
not event worn or some other BS..



maybe im getting a little off topic..
there is a lot more i can say but its all been said before..

Although I'm only new, sounds like the usual symptoms/illnesses that come from human greed mixing with the free trade economy. Less magical, more and more commercial just like Christmas.

Thanks for the great read and some excellent points made Heath. 'Collecting' has quickly become more of a gamble for many - myself included
My return to the hobby began a few months ago with my initial purchase of a few boxes of 92-93 nba cards (just for old times sake). It has quickly turned into a money pit where the satisfaction derived from the 'hits' has grown from being over the moon about pulling an Jordan Beam Team insert to mild satisfaction after hitting *another* MJ auto from an ATG case... groan... I think I've OD'd on the whole box/case busting thing because the 'fun factor' has definately dropped, and it's my own fault. Guess it may be time to move onto another poison

I started collecting in 1992 and worked in card shops in the glory days. Collected M.J and went as far as to collect every card made up until mid 1996 i think when they started bringing in rubys and impossible cards to get. That's what turned me away from NBA. Moved to AFL and while Selects product is dog **** compared to the quality upperdeck could produce, i never felt as if the industry would turn on me. Now there are rumors Panini are looking to buy AFL. It has alot of us worried. Our market is too small to handle 1/1 Chris Judd multi dimension quad jersey underpants cut ruby platinum book auto redemptions. It is these cards that turned alot of us away from NBA. I was going to buy a 3 box case of all time greats (I sometimes dabble in a box here or there) when i heard either M.J or L.J every mini case but when i saw i could just buy the cards i wanted at a fraction of the price of a case why bother. I don't care about 5 thousand dollar cards 1/1's

here is my take on how and why the hobby has changed for the worse and better.

I started collecting baseball cards in 1988. Chasing down hockey at first for Brett Hull rookies then to 89 UD for Dale Murphy error and Griffey cards. I used to have a flower shopped that doubled as a card shop at the time. My allowance was a mere $20 a week and I would skip buying lunch at school to save up to buy packs. There was no internet at the time. As time went on into the 90s, I depended on corner stores to have packs to bust. The odd time on a monthly basis a card show would pop up and I was ready to fill up what I needed for my collection/sets. Id chase cards down through friends, dealers and a few people via a network connection of other collectors. When I ended up in Univeristy (U Of Toronto) we were given email address (1994). I used telnet to log in and check out my mail from friends. From there I used the internet to hit up IIRC chat rooms and disscusion forums in the form of email. This opened up a vast array of networking of people who collected across the globe. Simple message board to post what you were looking for and what others were buying/trading/selling. No pictures just the want lists. We would send postal money orders/cash through the mail and wait for our cards to come. Be it a big help, it still was a small community in trading.

Then ebay came along. I could now search anything and everything I wanted to fill my sets and PC wants. It was easy as Pie. Infact after a bit of time I stopped busting wax and just waiting for sellers on ebay to lists sets. Insert sets, base sets and even harder inserts to find. I just clicked a stupid button and put in a bid and won. I would then later pay by money order (at first) or paypal (later on). Easy as 1,2,3. Find it, Bid and wait a week or so and im done finishing the set up.

Time/internet is what killed my collecting days. The days of waiting for others to bust wax in my community to see if they pulled what I needed and hoping to fill my sets through my friends became the days of the past. Now I could just go online and find whatever it is that im looking for. No more time spent on waiting, searching, hoping. All you do is log on and buy it!. The dedication and the time spent on everything that went with collecting was over.

So what now? Card companies keep up with demand and put out more sets, more brands, and more cards. Too much time and money to bust wax to get it. Wait a few weeks and some powerseller will have sets up for fraction of the price of busting. Want an insert set..wait..they'll all show up. Just bid away or go on a forum and im pretty sure someone will have what you are looking for.

To sum it all up, the "Fun" was over for me. Its like going to a baseball game after its finished and knowing the score. Whats the point?

Add in the fact that household incomes grew and prices gone up (not talking inflation) but disposable income. Add in speculators and investor looking to make a buck and the market actually priced me out. If im not collecting for love, then im buying to profit. Either way, the internet/paypal/messageboards/forums/ebay all made everything to easy for me. Those all combined together killed the hobby of collecting.

Imagine being in 1992 and you want a Donruss Elite /10,000 card?? Unless you broke case after case, you were never going to see one. And if you did it was a big show and they were asking for your house for it. Fast foward 8 yrs later. All you do is get on the net and pop on ebay and youll find one. Or go to a messageboard and someone has one for sale. Gone are the days of wondering what it looks like, who has one and how long before it shows up so I have a chance at it. Here are the days of literally creating a wantlist, posting it and waiting a few hours before given a price and tada!! shipped to you in a week. The journey in collecting is gone. The end product is instant. Whats the fun in that?

I dont think its collectors or card companies that have done it in for final. Its us. We need to find something that interests us and keeps us occupied. We need the essential on what my VP at work considers a necessity..... we need something to fill our appetite of "Time well wasted". We need to fill that time "Journey" part of having a hobby.

Good post Jay. How about that flower shop/card shop?! Awesome!

I remember how hard it was trying to find numbered cards, can still appreciate a nice 90's 1/1 if someone still has it and tracked it down back then, unbelievable!

Great post heath..some very valid points.
I can remember the good old days where just pulling a base card of your favorite player put a smile on ya face.
Now those base cards go in the bin...kind of miss that feeling actually.

Its a little hard to not go the...want value for money when busting boxes when you consider what we are paying for them these days.
I think it was more a natural progression..
Some of that progression is good and some bad.....
As long as im having fun within the hobby its all good

A big difference with the "old days" and now I think is, back then we didn't have a billion different products releasing every month. I always remember you had a good amount of time to actually focus on the brand that was just released for awhile and actually get a good fell for all the different inserts and stuff that were in the set and get some of them and you would actually be buying a lot of it because there wasn't new stuff coming out every other day.

Nowadays it's not like that at all..... you really have no connection with any one brand it seems, it just seems like a on-going process mill of product and if you would ask anyone I doubt they could tell you the name of all the inserts/hits that came out of a specific brand; back then when you actually had the time to digest the product a bit more I'd say most people would be able to tell you, but not today.

It's that way with the manufacturers too and hence probably why we had so many nice looking and though out inserts back in the day and not so much now. Because of the constant mill of products they have to feed out the designers/manufacturers don't care to give any of the inserts/hits their own identity and they mostly all probably go through the process of "that'll do" - I really don't think much thought actually goes into the design process these days like it did back then.

GarnettFan4Life said:

Good post Jay. How about that flower shop/card shop?! Awesome!

I remember how hard it was trying to find numbered cards, can still appreciate a nice 90's 1/1 if someone still has it and tracked it down back then, unbelievable!

Click to expand...

The flower shop was the closest thing we had to a card shop for a long time. We used to get on our bikes and ride 45 min to get there instead of taking the bus. We'd meet up on the streets as we were all from different areas and all head over. Good times when looking back at what we did to kill our time over the summer!

nice write up heath! agree totally...
i agree with Matt, back when the 94/95 stuff was out, it was exciting pulling a nice insert, back when the market wasnt flooded with too many releases, remember in 96/97 when the skybox autographics were released, great idea at the time, but it was the begining of the end, game used and auto cards should be something that is of value, something sort after, not mass produced crap like now has happened, so damn wrong and it has killed the hobby, becasue of our "lust" for these, products are now more expensive and you very rarely get value for money...
isnt it funny how "old school" inserts are attracting so much attention...i think its great that people are changing there perception and hope one day the card companies might take a leaf and maybe act upon this...find it funny that back in 1998 that i got a kobe ex credentials rookie /499 for a $100 worth of cheap inserts and commons! (card books at $900us now) hence to say every time i see the guy i got it from now he always curses me and never forgot...

I agree with this post - what I desire from a box is "fun" - I know as soon as i've spent my $100+ it's down the drain. I don't demand value back. If I wanted that I would keep my money in a 6.5% interest account. If I get fun from my busting then all is achieved -- how can you not, cards are awesome and every pack/box is different.

jared_davey said:

gu /799 thats not guarenteed. Game used cards should be just that. GAME USED.
not event worn or some other BS..
maybe im getting a little off topic..
there is a lot more i can say but its all been said before..

Click to expand...

Event worn = rookie photo shoots and things of the sort.

Has the hobby lost Its way ? EHHHH ... You gotta understand that NOTHING stays the same. It's not 1993 anymore. It's 2011 ... I see It more as an evolution sort of thing ... The hobby has grown and evolved. It's now unfortunately mass production and sticker auto's ... I honestly have never been into the inserts and non numbered cards ... I love the NBA, I love basketball, and I love the hobby ... But I DO want to collect something that Is actually worth money. That makes this all worth while In a way. It's collecting sports history. Obviously cards have lost value over the years. That's why you gotta find something unique, something that no one else has. You can't expect a Blake Griffin sticker auto out of 500 to hold Its value. That's just not realistic. Gone are the days of Beckett ... Something Is only worth what someone will pay for It. That's the truth. I just think you gotta be smart about collecting. Don't screw yourself over by spending money on cards that arn't worth anything. If you're gonna collect, get some stuff that will actually hold value. Don't be a hoarder ! Do you really need 50 boxes of cards that you'll forget about In 2 days ? Patience Is the key ... wait till you find something that you'll truely appreciate.

---------- Post added 27-08-2011 at 06:09 PM ----------

Thank you for the likes ... Didn't think people would really be Into my post ... Only my thoughts on collecting ... Started In 1994. I'm 22 now. So picky with what I bring Into my collection. 25 cards, 16 are worth money. I see alot of people talking about how the hobby has died ... I just don't agree. The hobby has simply changed from what It once was. I only hate on mass production and sticker auto's ... Other than that, how has It gone down hill ? The thrill Is still there. Still bringing you closer to the game that we love to watch / play. Isn't that what it's about ?

fair comments Rob! we all have differnet opinions on this and you make a more than valid statement....still think "evolution" isnt always the way of improvement, but its life and i still agree 100% with Heath that collecting isnt what it used to be...but thats just me....

The First reason the hobby is losing its way is because there is one company with a monolopy making cards, having a monolopy in any business is a bad thing for consumers.
Secondly there have been too many products coming out the last several years, there should be a cap (allthough this will never change as companies will not fork over big $$ to produce only a few series)
Also blaming collectors for wanting some value particulary when buying a case is a joke, whilst people can't expect to get a kobe/lebron/MJ or logoman in every box there needs to be value in buying a case, some incentive otherwise people will stop butsting wax and then people wont be able to buy singles.
Ive spent a lot of $$$ over the years busting wax, i dont expect to make a profit i do it for the rush of maybe getting that elusive big hit, its like gambling but you get something to keep after the money is gone, the sooner people buy for the fun/rush of it and not to make a profit the better!!
Just my 2 cents worth

aussie26 said:

The First reason the hobby is losing its way is because there is one company with a monolopy making cards, having a monolopy in any business is a bad thing for consumers.
Secondly there have been too many products coming out the last several years, there should be a cap (allthough this will never change as companies will not fork over big $$ to produce only a few series)
Also blaming collectors for wanting some value particulary when buying a case is a joke, whilst people can't expect to get a kobe/lebron/MJ or logoman in every box there needs to be value in buying a case, some incentive otherwise people will stop butsting wax and then people wont be able to buy singles.
Ive spent a lot of $$$ over the years busting wax, i dont expect to make a profit i do it for the rush of maybe getting that elusive big hit, its like gambling but you get something to keep after the money is gone, the sooner people buy for the fun/rush of it and not to make a profit the better!!
Just my 2 cents worth

Click to expand...

Fleer was the only company that was making basketball cards during the 80s. I dont how 1 company in the industry could lead it to the demise today but make it succssful back then. The whole 1 company thing is an excuse.

As for too much branding and products? When UD, Topps, Fleer/Skybox were all in the business they are 3 times as many brands/products. People could handle it. There are different brands for every tier level of spend. This way with on a few products, there are many that couldnt afford the $400 box and there are those who lose interest at cracking the $50/box product. Need to please everyone.

As for pricing vs value. The value of cards that come out of a pack/box is found in the process of having fun and busting wax. Not in the cards. The profit side to it is found in the market value of cards being pulled. Two distinct types of people.. Those who collect dont care for value. Those who bust/buy/flip to resell and make a profit care. But they are also the gamblers. And with any gambling oppurtunity should come risk. Thats the risk you take for busting packs and make nothing back.

I had a similar thread about this a few months back. The topic was that its not so much a hobby anymore but rather a gambling addiction for many. People are busting cases just for the chance to hit the jackpot card which is exactly what gambling is!

The tiered product range is completely understandable because let me tell you, on my budget I would be ****ing pissed if there were only a choice between Donruss Bball and NT.

Yes it sucks that Panini make most of the products at that moment but at least there are some right? Would we prefer no one made current NBA cards at the moment?
Anyone who answers yes to the second question should seriously think about their answer, especially if said person is collecting J. Walls/B. Griffins and the like, or any recent player for that matter.

Cool thread!

I think a lot has changed as well, like a lot of the posts here. But for me the biggest change I have noticed is my age and perspective. I was in my early teen in the early 90's and never once opened a sealed box...not even half a box. I worked for pocket money to buy packs and traded with my mates. The interwebs also, like many have mentioned, have opened the hobby from a local thing, town level, to international.

So some of the awesome inserts are now jerseys and autos, they only add to the rarity and collectability of the older stuff. For me it is just about perspective. If I was 11, 12 or 13 now and hooked on sports cards, I think the feelings of the hunt would be very similar to what they were in the early 90's. But alas, I am 33 with a job, making money and have the responsibilities of a family and life in today's hectic society...that alters the perception of things. I think the hobby is alive and well, if only I had more time and less worries.

Places like this site really help to keep the fun in it. The trading and helping each other out, for me, is an improvement to the hobby

Clay

Just like to add one observation. Sometimes it could be the collector who has "lost" their way. It is really all dependent on the life stage of each individual collector. I was mad into collecting when I was 15 years of age all the way up to 21 year...that was when I had to start supporting myself in Uni and of course after that I got girlfriends to deal with. It was like as if I went missing from the hobby for a good couple of years when that happen. All my time and money was spent on more meaningful life adventures and none for the hobby. It is only 12 months ago that I thought of leaving this hobby for good but decided to give it one more crack at it and never looked back. This is to the collectors who have lost their way, you are always welcome back to the OCT family. Cheers Alex