2014-15 NBA Playoffs Thread - SPOILERS!!!!

drob50 · Jun 18, 2015

It is simple....

If you don't win, how can you say your input was the most valuable?

Maybe it would have been more valuable if you shot less and got your teammates going more? Maybe it would have been more valuable if you defended Curry instead of Livingston? Scoring 40/13/8 is great, but it didn't make your team win, so it was obviously not what the team needed to win.

Iggy on the other hand did EXACTLY what the Warriors needed him to do in order to get the win. Therefore is input was more valuable.

NBASIMMO · Jun 18, 2015

This from NBA.com -

Only once in the history of the NBA has the NBA Finals MVP come from the team that lost the NBA Finals (Jerry West in 1969). If the Cavs lose these Finals, LeBron James should still become the second player to be acclaimed even in losing. LeBron James finished Game 5 with 40 points, 14 rebounds and 11 assists, his second triple-double in five Finals games this postseason, even in a losing effort for the Cavs. No player in this series has meant as much to his team, night after night, play after play, as LeBron James has meant to the Cavaliers, even in a losing effort. Even if Golden State wins this series, LeBron James has been the most valuable player.

drob50 · Jun 18, 2015

NBASIMMO said:
This from NBA.com -

Only once in the history of the NBA has the NBA Finals MVP come from the team that lost the NBA Finals (Jerry West in 1969). If the Cavs lose these Finals, LeBron James should still become the second player to be acclaimed even in losing. LeBron James finished Game 5 with 40 points, 14 rebounds and 11 assists, his second triple-double in five Finals games this postseason, even in a losing effort for the Cavs. No player in this series has meant as much to his team, night after night, play after play, as LeBron James has meant to the Cavaliers, even in a losing effort. Even if Golden State wins this series, LeBron James has been the most valuable player.

This from Adam's brain -

Only once in the history of the NBA has the NBA Finals MVP come from the team that lost the NBA Finals (Jerry West in 1969). This is because it was the very first time the award was given out and it was before voters realised that a true MVP couldn't be on the losing team.

mat2323 · Jun 18, 2015

Ersk said:
But you could see that Iggy may be the MVP, because if he was not the one to play LeBron, The Warriors may not have won the trophy. So in effect he was able, to some extent limit and shut down LeBron, and therefore a better MVP than The King.

Yes, he had no support, there is no doubt about that. That is why they could not get the ring. But being the only good player on the team and doing all the work, does not necessarily mean you are the MVP.

Maybe the Cavs may still not have won without Iggy to play LeBron. And that was where it may have been heading anyway without the Warrior's lineup change. But we will never know. And from what could be seen, Iggy got inserted, turned the tables on a storming LeBron, and they ended up winning 3 in a row to secure the Title.

Can the coach be the MVP for taking the chance with the lineup change?

Who I feel bad for is Bogut, as he was taken off..........makes it look as though he was a problem in the Warrior's losses early in the Finals series.

If shutting down Lebron means

Ersk said:
But you could see that Iggy may be the MVP, because if he was not the one to play LeBron, The Warriors may not have won the trophy. So in effect he was able, to some extent limit and shut down LeBron, and therefore a better MVP than The King.

Yes, he had no support, there is no doubt about that. That is why they could not get the ring. But being the only good player on the team and doing all the work, does not necessarily mean you are the MVP.

Maybe the Cavs may still not have won without Iggy to play LeBron. And that was where it may have been heading anyway without the Warrior's lineup change. But we will never know. And from what could be seen, Iggy got inserted, turned the tables on a storming LeBron, and they ended up winning 3 in a row to secure the Title.

Can the coach be the MVP for taking the chance with the lineup change?

Who I feel bad for is Bogut, as he was taken off..........makes it look as though he was a problem in the Warrior's losses early in the Finals series.

if shutting down Lebron is 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds and 8.8 assists per game. then if hate to see him not stoping him, also if you can have a porformance like that and not win mvp then it go's to show that they need a change in how the finals MVP is awarded, because theirs no way over 6 games Iggy was better than james

Dogs2194 · Jun 18, 2015

If Kyrie or love where fit would Lebron have put up them numbers?

drob50 · Jun 18, 2015

mat2323 said:
If shutting down Lebron means

if shutting down Lebron is 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds and 8.8 assists per game. then if hate to see him not stoping him, also if you can have a porformance like that and not win mvp then it go's to show that they need a change in how the finals MVP is awarded, because theirs no way over 6 games Iggy was better than james

When Iguodala was in the game, LeBron James shot 38.1 percent from the field, scoring 26 points per 36 minutes with 2.9 turnovers. With Iguodala on the bench, James shot 44 percent, averaging 35 points per 36 minutes with 2.2 turnovers. With Iguodala as the primary defender, opponents shot 37.2 percent overall, and he gave up free throws the same percentage of time (10.8 percent) that he forced a turnover.

exzibit3 · Jun 18, 2015

I think that to a certain extent, there exists an understanding that the title of MVP should also bring with it the pre-requisite of winning games. We see this constantly in the regular season and indeed in the NBA Finals. Russell Westbrook, despite putting up near triple doubles on a seemingly nightly basis, would have been a very unlikely winner of league MVP as his team failed to make the playoffs. He was clearly the sole reason that they were even close to making the playoffs and arguably had the best stats in the league. I just don't get awarding it to someone on the losing team. If LeBron got swept but averaged 50, 10 and 10, are you really going to give it to him? It makes no sense. I also don't get how Steph ends up with no votes. Who the hell are these 11 voters? Steph had one horrible game, and maybe 3 quarters of another game, but was in my opinion, the more deserving winner over Iggy. It will be somewhat interesting to see what Kerr does next season with the starting lineup. Surely you can't bring the Finals MVP off the bench? And surely David Lee will play a larger role?

drob50 · Jun 18, 2015

exzibit3 said:
I think that to a certain extent, there exists an understanding that the title of MVP should also bring with it the pre-requisite of winning games. We see this constantly in the regular season and indeed in the NBA Finals. Russell Westbrook, despite putting up near triple doubles on a seemingly nightly basis, would have been a very unlikely winner of league MVP as his team failed to make the playoffs. He was clearly the sole reason that they were even close to making the playoffs and arguably had the best stats in the league. I just don't get awarding it to someone on the losing team. If LeBron got swept but averaged 50, 10 and 10, are you really going to give it to him? It makes no sense. I also don't get how Steph ends up with no votes. Who the hell are these 11 voters? Steph had one horrible game, and maybe 3 quarters of another game, but was in my opinion, the more deserving winner over Iggy. It will be somewhat interesting to see what Kerr does next season with the starting lineup. Surely you can't bring the Finals MVP off the bench? And surely David Lee will play a larger role?

mattyman76 · Jun 18, 2015

The most valuable player is the one that can stop lebron which is what iggy did. The time Iggy guarded lebron he went 18 from 54 shots shooting 33%.
Of contested shots lebron went 11 of 46 22%. And don't forget playing 46 min a game with 40 FG attempts, and the only scorer on the team dropping 30+ a game is a given.

drob50 · Jun 18, 2015

2 years in a row where Lebron's team was beated in the Finals. I where he didn't have enough help and one where his team got decimated.

But the worst part for Lebron?

In both instances, the finals MVP was Lebron's direct opponent!

OUCH!!

drob50 · Jun 18, 2015

Early bold prediction for 15/16....

K Love leaves Cleveland, D Wade comes in. Blatt stays.... TT Stays, JR leaves, Shumpert stays

CLE makes finals again next year.. Still waiting to hear offseason moves before predicting their oponent

BRONBRON · Jun 18, 2015

drob50 said:
2 years in a row where Lebron's team was beated in the Finals. I where he didn't have enough help and one where his team got decimated.

But the worst part for Lebron?

In both instances, the finals MVP was Lebron's direct opponent!

OUCH!!

That's a bit of a stretch.... Iggy's direct opponent put up a monster stat line through out the series. On the offensive end he was stroking elbow jumpers with Mosgov lagging off him. Hardly a direct comparison.

In saying that a great series to watch. I hadn't watched much of Golden State through the year and the first couple of games I was wondering why they had the record they did. At the end of the finals series I could see why! No weak links in that team and some of those 3 balls of Stephs were crazy.

Bring on next season and hopefully the loss means I can still add some nice cards to the PC at a reasonable price! Gotta find a positive haha

drob50 · Jun 18, 2015

BRONBRON said:
That's a bit of a stretch.... Iggy's direct opponent put up a monster stat line through out the series. On the offensive end he was stroking elbow jumpers with Mosgov lagging off him. Hardly a direct comparison.

In saying that a great series to watch. I hadn't watched much of Golden State through the year and the first couple of games I was wondering why they had the record they did. At the end of the finals series I could see why! No weak links in that team and some of those 3 balls of Stephs were crazy.

Bring on next season and hopefully the loss means I can still add some nice cards to the PC at a reasonable price! Gotta find a positive haha

Not saying they were better than Lebron in either case, just that it is the fact that his opponents won the award. Anyone with half a brain knows that Lebron was the best player in BOTH finals series'. I mean, if you can get the MVP just for REDUCING Lebron's impact, then you know that Lebron is clearly the biggest fish!

I personally have always been up and down on Lebron over the years, but after 3 games in this series, I was absolutely blown away by the freak that he is. I grew up hearing about Jordan everyday, but it wasn't accessible to watch him like I watch Lebron. I hate the way he whinges for calls and doesn't get back on D, but if you spent as much time being picky about Jordan, I am sure there is parts of his game you would pull apart as well.

I just wish everyone could stick with comparing TEAMS and not players so we can enjoy the game without GOAT talk all the time

exzibit3 · Jun 18, 2015

ESPN reporting that Lee not likely to return next season as they feel it would be unfair to him to keep him in a diminished role. Whoever gets Lee will be getting a 18 and 8 type production if he gets minutes.

mat2323 · Jun 18, 2015

Stopped Lebron, he averaged 35/13/8, if thats stopping I'd hate to see him going off

mattyman76 said:
The most valuable player is the one that can stop lebron which is what iggy did. The time Iggy guarded lebron he went 18 from 54 shots shooting 33%.
Of contested shots lebron went 11 of 46 22%. And don't forget playing 46 min a game with 40 FG attempts, and the only scorer on the team dropping 30+ a game is a given

mat2323 · Jun 18, 2015

I thought he had another year left on his deal, who ever takes him won't get value at 16 million a year

exzibit3 said:
ESPN reporting that Lee not likely to return next season as they feel it would be unfair to him to keep him in a diminished role. Whoever gets Lee will be getting a 18 and 8 type production if he gets minutes.

mattyman76 · Jun 18, 2015

mat2323 said:
Stopped Lebron, he averaged 35/13/8, if thats stopping I'd hate to see him going off

You totally missed the point. The time iggy was guarding him he shot 33%. Would you classify making the best player shoot 33% not MVP quality basketball?

mat2323 · Jun 18, 2015

mattyman76 said:
You totally missed the point. The time iggy was guarding him he shot 33%. Would you classify making the best player shoot 33% not MVP quality basketball?

Not when he still averaged 35, plus 14 rebounds, and 8 assists, more than one way to help a team, he would of averaged 15 assists if anyone of his team could hit a shot

exzibit3 · Jun 18, 2015

Amidst all of this, the undeniable fact gets lost that LeBron brought a team that was 33-49 the previous year with Kyrie Irving at the helm all the way to the Finals and two wins short of a championship. Kevin Love didn't play particularly well in the regular season and copped a lot of criticism for being ineffective and unable to find a rhythm, and Kyrie and him missed significant amount of the playoffs with injuries. It is really amazing when you start to grasp how monumental a feat it is to haul this depleted Cavs team to a 2-1 series lead in the Finals. Iggy played great defense on LeBron, I'll give him some credit, but to say that he was the reason for LeBron being ineffective on offense is a disservice to LeBron. LeBron averaged 45 minutes a game this series, he was their primary ball handler for most of the series, the dubs defense could help out on him and converge without fearing offense from anyone else, the Cavs had little option but to run iso plays over and over again where LeBron had to force the defense to react and either finish on a drive or kick out, he was burning the candle of both ends of the court trying to play defense and rebound and because the Cavs had no other consistent offensive threat, he had to take far more shots to even give them a chance to stay close. Even an elite athlete like LeBron will become fatigued and his legs would give on his jumpshots and he loses half a step in finishing at the rim. Igoudala played him well, but a good offense will beat good defense any day. LeBron just ran out of gas and the lack of any viable scoring option made it hard to spread the court for him to be effective, and as a result he forced a lot of shots up and few were taken in the flow of an offensive set. Then when LeBron started settling for jumpshots because he's gassed, he couldn't quite get his legs underneath him to make them. Too much credit is given to Igoudala on defense without considering the other nuances that contributed to LeBron being inefficient.

mat2323 · Jun 18, 2015

I think it's simple, the cavs without Lebron this finals would lose 4/0, the warriors without Iggy, maybe force it to game 7 but still win, that's all it comes down to.

2014-15 NBA Playoffs Thread - SPOILERS!!!!

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