Who's the best player never to win a title?

[Billyhoyle]

With Steve Nash's retirement highlighting another great player to not get a ring. Who do you consider the best player never to get a title?

ESPN released this article:
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/pos...-nash-best-players-never-win-nba-championship

Steve Nash and the best players never to win an NBA championship
March 23, 2015
By Adam Beard | ESPN.com

Brett Davis/USA TODAY SportsSteve Nash orchestrated the most efficient offenses of the 2000s.
After a 19-year NBA career in which he stood out as a future Hall of Famer and one of the greatest point guards ever, Steve Nash is now retired. Nash won two NBA MVP awards, but he never got the opportunity to hoist the Larry O'Brien Trophy -- just one of four retired former MVPs to have never won an NBA title. Here are the others:

Charles Barkley

Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE/Getty Images
Barkley is one of the most dominant power forwards in the history of the league, and he is arguably the best retired forward to not win a title. The closest "Sir Charles" came to a ring was in 1993, when he won the MVP and led the Phoenix Suns to the NBA Finals. However, the Suns lost to Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls 4-2. Barkley is one of four players in NBA history who have compiled 20,000 points, 10,000 rebounds and 4,000 assists (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain and Karl Malone are the others).

Allen Iverson

Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images
"The Answer" came closest to winning a championship in 2001 when he took the Philadelphia 76ers to the NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers. However, Iverson and his team fell 4-1 to Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal. Some thought Iverson could win one alongside Carmelo Anthony when he was traded to the Denver Nuggets in 2006, but that never panned out. Iverson retired with 11 All-Star appearances and one MVP award.

Karl Malone

George Frey/AFP/Getty Images
Barkley is arguably the best forward because Malone is the counterargument. The Basketball Hall of Famer made three appearances in the NBA Finals, twice with the Utah Jazz and once with the Lakers in his last season in the NBA. Despite never winning it all, "The Mailman" is considered one of the best players to ever play the game.

Other greats without a ring:

Elgin Baylor

Robert Riger/Getty Images
Patrick Ewing

AP Photo/Amy Sancetta
George Gervin

Focus on Sport/Getty Images
Grant Hill

Sam Forencich/NBAE/Getty Images
Bernard King

Dick Raphael/NBAE/Getty Images
Pete Maravich

Dick Raphael/NBAE/Getty Images
Tracy McGrady

Glenn James/NBAE/Getty Images
Reggie Miller

Howard Earl Simmons/NY Daily News Archive/Getty Images
Chris Mullin

Getty Images
John Stockton

George Frey/AFP/Getty Images
Chris Webber

Jed Jacobsohn/Getty Images
Dominique Wilkins

USA TODAY Sports

 

[taffster74]

Has to be Ewing. Continually carried the knicks to the post-season, never recieved any recognition beyond a couple of All-nba teams.

 

[mattharper85]

Karl Malone

http://www.landofbasketball.com/nba_players/m/karl_malone.htm

 

[Grindnation]

i choose the mail man

 

[OutlawNinja]

Jacques Dominique Wilkins.

 

[drob50]

You guys are DREAMERS!! lol, especially the Homer Wilkins and Ewing picks!

Elgin Baylor takes it over Malone in 2nd. He was the League's Jordan before there was such thing as a Jordan!

He was part of Jerry West's tormented 60's team that went to the finals 8 times against the most dominant team in NBA history, and couldn't win any of them. To make it worse, the day after Baylor retired, the Lakers went on a 33 game win streak and won a ring that season. (I know, that looks real bad )

Baylor has Malone beat in ppg, rpg, apg and he did it all at the SF position, mostly creating his own shots. Malone had one of the bet passers of all time feeding him points constantly.

I would like to know who the 2 "other" picks were?

 

[ben82]

grant hill

 

[mattharper85]

You guys are DREAMERS!! lol, especially the Homer Wilkins and Ewing picks!

Elgin Baylor takes it over Malone in 2nd. He was the League's Jordan before there was such thing as a Jordan!

He was part of Jerry West's tormented 60's team that went to the finals 8 times against the most dominant team in NBA history, and couldn't win any of them. To make it worse, the day after Baylor retired, the Lakers went on a 33 game win streak and won a ring that season. (I know, that looks real bad )

Baylor has Malone beat in ppg, rpg, apg and he did it all at the SF position, mostly creating his own shots. Malone had one of the bet passers of all time feeding him points constantly.

I would like to know who the 2 "other" picks were?

Shawn bradley would have to of been one

 

[drob50]

Shawn bradley would have to of been one

I can think of 2 centers ahead of him, let alone even getting a vote for number 1 all time! haha

 

[mattharper85]

I can think of 2 centers ahead of him, let alone even getting a vote for number 1 all time! haha

Hahaha

 

[araiee]

as much as I don't like him....the mailman, such great all round skills in a body builders frame, dominated the game, the only thing he lacked was mjs killer instinct, the reason why mj is the goat...and I don't even like mj either....

 

[taffster74]

There are three things that sour the vote for malone. Stockton, dirty play and arrogance. Without stockton, would malone have put up those numbers? And don't forget he got away with a lot dirty plays - kicking, elbowing, kneeing - that other's didn't. And because of that he developed a smug arrogance that made him hated. Baylor had Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain - 'nough said. Ewing? Never had a permanent, strong point-guard (ala stockton), never had a consistent second scorer to help him. Yes, there were Oakley, Charles smith, John Starks, Anthony Mason, Allan houston, Latrell sprewell - but they ended up becoming little more than role players and were never consistent enough.

 

[GarnettFan4Life]

Barkley or Iverson IMO - can't pick between them

Although @drob50 Baylor suggestion seems legit too. Awesome career stats.

 

[drob50]

There are three things that sour the vote for malone. Stockton, dirty play and arrogance. Without stockton, would malone have put up those numbers? And don't forget he got away with a lot dirty plays - kicking, elbowing, kneeing - that other's didn't. And because of that he developed a smug arrogance that made him hated. Baylor had Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain - 'nough said. Ewing? Never had a permanent, strong point-guard (ala stockton), never had a consistent second scorer to help him. Yes, there were Oakley, Charles smith, John Starks, Anthony Mason, Allan houston, Latrell sprewell - but they ended up becoming little more than role players and were never consistent enough.

It is that sort of ignorance that hurts older players' legacies!
Baylor only had Wilt for the last 4 season of his career. Only 2 that he really played a meaningful amount of games.

He averaged 25ppg up to 38ppg overt the years PRIOR to Wilt. In the first 5 seasons, Baylor averaged almost the same amount of assist per game than West did. So how does that add up?

Baylor was the reason that players like Dr J and MJ came along and played the way they did.

To make matters worse for your argument, not only did Baylor have a much better scoring average than Ewing ever did, but he also out rebounded Ewing!

Watch and appreciate:

 

[GarnettFan4Life]

I'm not a big Ewing fan, not sure why. I respected the physicality of guys like Oakley, Mason, kind of liked Allan Houston but not Ewing. I kind of feel like he under-achieved for his career, does anyone else feel that way?

Didn't average a double double? I know that if you excluded the Orlando and maybe Seattle years then it would be 10+ but still. Just a conversation point. I know Garnett is going through the same thing at the moment, currently around 6rpg which is dragging down his career average currently at 10.2

 

[drob50]

I'm not a big Ewing fan, not sure why. I respected the physicality of guys like Oakley, Mason, kind of liked Allan Houston but not Ewing. I kind of feel like he under-achieved for his career, does anyone else feel that way?

Didn't average a double double? I know that if you excluded the Orlando and maybe Seattle years then it would be 10+ but still. Just a conversation point. I know Garnett is going through the same thing at the moment, currently around 6rpg which is dragging down his career average currently at 10.2

You are spot on in my mind. Ewing was unlucky because he was born at the same time as Jordan and Olajuwon, who's teams accounted for every title from 90-98. Ewing managed a finals appearance in 94 and took Houston to 7 I think. And also in 99 where he was out with an Achilles injury, (and the Spurs swept the Knicks )

But he should have done more that he did IMO.

 

[GarnettFan4Life]

You are spot on in my mind. Ewing was unlucky because he was born at the same time as Jordan and Olajuwon, who's teams accounted for every title from 90-98. Ewing managed a finals appearance in 94 and took Houston to 7 I think. And also in 99 where he was out with an Achilles injury, (and the Spurs swept the Knicks )

But he should have done more that he did IMO.

I remembered the wrist injury but I forgot about the achilles injury. Health is a factor in a long successful career as they all know!

 

[drobfan8]

There are three things that sour the vote for malone. Stockton, dirty play and arrogance. Without stockton, would malone have put up those numbers? And don't forget he got away with a lot dirty plays - kicking, elbowing, kneeing - that other's didn't. And because of that he developed a smug arrogance that made him hated. Baylor had Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain - 'nough said. Ewing? Never had a permanent, strong point-guard (ala stockton), never had a consistent second scorer to help him. Yes, there were Oakley, Charles smith, John Starks, Anthony Mason, Allan houston, Latrell sprewell - but they ended up becoming little more than role players and were never consistent enough.

I totally agree with you.

I actually think that both Stockton and Malone owe a lot to Jerry Sloan and his pick and roll/pop offense. Would they have had the same stats at another team with a different offense? I highly doubt it.

This is the same offense that made Boozer and D. Williams' careers until they thought it wise to move on.

I agree with Adam (drob50) about Elgin. Easy call.

Most of the other guys all wanted to be "the man" mainly and never sacrificed until it was too late. But they were certainly great all the same.

 

[edac6942]

Player: malone
Team: seattle sonics kemp/payton days.
Then that means no second three peat for bulls

 

[hairyangryfella]

To make matters worse for your argument, not only did Baylor have a much better scoring average than Ewing ever did, but he also out rebounded Ewing!

Uh, didn't most players of that era have high rebound numbers..? If Ewing played then he'd have had a whole lot more, so I think that's a dumb point to bring up.
Ewing was the Knicks. If he had better surrounding players, or been in a slightly different time, he may have won a championship.


Malone would probably have been the first person in my mind, not sure who I'd actually go with though.