your advice please

ok guys i am surre alot of you would have seen what happend in my 05/06 UPPERDECK SPGU box break refer to the following thread

http://www.ozcardtrader.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1943

well i have been in contact with the seller a couple of times through out the week and here is what has been happening.

my first contact with was after i opened the box

"Was this box a factory sealed box ? cause a the jersey was missing from one of the jersey cards and i received NO auto's, very disappointed. Regards Andrew "


SELLER RESPONCE

"Yes, it came from a sealed case. The Jersey is missing? You may want to send the card to Upper Deck, they can send you a replacement.

Terry "


ME

" ok i definately think that item no.8739412108 was not factory sealed, reason being that i just busted another box of 05/06 SPGU and the plastic was totally different to the plastic on your box. The plastic on the other box had white upperdeck logos plasted all over it, your plastic wrapping had nothing on the plastic and plastic also felt and looked totally different (i am keeping all the contents of both boxers). The box you sent me didn't have any auto cards in it, each box of SPGU averages at least 1 auto per box. I would like a full refund, if i don't receive a full refund i will be reporting you to ebay & paypal and i may be lodging a claim with upperdeck. "



SELLER

"Hello,
I really don't know what you are talking about. First off, about 90% of our boxes we sell on ebay are drop-shipped by various well-known distributors and we have not had any problems. We don't ship them from our store. We have seen probably 3-4 cases of this product busted in our store and nothing is guaranteed, we have seen anywhere from 0-5 autos in one box. If the box was not opened you could send it back for inspection. We obviously can not send you a refund for a box of opened cards. To me, it would be rather obvious if the plastic was not correct before I opened a box. Our reputation peaks for itself. "



ME

" i shouldn't have to look at the plastic before i open it cause i would have thought this would have been a factory sealed box, which it was not. Anyway i will be lodging a claim case with upperdeck quality assurance department, i have to send in the hologram from the box along with the concerns i have with the box, so i guess upperdeck will able to tell by hologram from the box as to what cards should have been in the box. As I can see you will be of no help i think i might have to lodge a claim with ebay and paypal. Regards Andrew "


SELLER

" Andrew,
I don't know exactly what you expect us to do. We can't just send you a refund because you say you opened a box and didn't get what you were suppose to get. We have seen hundreds of boxes opened where someone didn't get what they were suppose to get. We sell thousands of boxes, haven't had any related problems. I'm not sure what you are expecting us to do. I'm sorry you were not happy with the transaction. We have a couple of these boxes left in stock in our store for our store customres, but I will ship one to you at a discounted price if you'd like in good faith. Everything looks fine with it from here. These are re-stock boxes we have $125 into. We would sell one for $90+ postage to show good faith (or I guess we could send you $35 partial refund to show good faith) as that is what we would be losing on the box. I don't know what else we can do. If that is not satisfactory, do you what you feel is necessary, but we have not done anything wrong.

Terry Boyd
- BigBoyd Sports Cards "



ok guys that is were it is up to at the moment any advice on what i should do next.

i would wait to see was UD say about the box, can thry tell the exact contents of boxes? like how many GU or auto's were supposed to be in there? if they can and they say there was supposed to be and auto in there, then get back to the seller and tell him , he scammed ya.

That's a tough one dude. Sounds like they are legit...but then again? Have you checked their feedback rating, and if so are they reputable?

check their feedback, if they've no negs than i would trust them, he sounds very legit. feedback check now!

I do not think UD can say what was in the box from the hologram. The packs should be randomly packed. I have previously had contact with UD about SPGU ;ast year, as I also didnot get an auto. They said average of 1 auto per box, but not guaranteed.

But they will definitely send a replacement for the card without jersey, after they receive the card and inspect it to make sure it had not been tampered with.

Ersk

Ersk

bottom line is,
if the seller sent you the box without the wrapping of the white UD logos, and just some clear wrapping..
then the box is NOT FACTORY SEALED, and the seller is an asshole

geelongfan said:

bottom line is,
if the seller sent you the box without the wrapping of the white UD logos, and just some clear wrapping..
then the box is NOT FACTORY SEALED, and the seller is an asshole

Click to expand...

exactly what i was going to say!!...fuck him .....take this half arsed criminal to the cleaners!!

people just say look at my feedback...thats means...look at how many other dumb fucks ive ripped off!!!!

A sealed box should have the wrapping with the UD/Fleer logos on it. If they don't it's likely a re-sealed box. It's easy enough to buy a machine that wraps a box like the card companies do.

yep guys it looks like it is time to make a complaint to ebay & paypal. i am spending the letter to upperdeck on monday, the following is a reply i received via email from upperdeck today.

"Hello,



What you can do is send the top of the box that has the hologram as well as the card that does not have the jersey with a letter explaining what happen to you to:



The Upper Deck Company

Attn: Quality Assurance Department

5909 Sea Otter Place

Carlsbad, CA 92010



Thanks,

Hard scenario... I think he's a good seller...

He didn't send the box, he sold it, a wholesaler sent it and he recieved a cut, though he is responsible for the people sending the box. I've had similar problems with "drop shipped" boxes from good sellers... They list and sell the item, then trust pass it on to a third party who sends your box -- the third party is dodgy, but Terry is responsible.

Ultimately Terry is still responsible.

Ersk

I've dealt with Terry on a number of occasions and he is a top class guy but is wrong this time. I'm sure people have tried to rip him off before but if yours didn't have the ud logo on the wrapping then its bogus. I'd say one of his distributers has done a dodgey as he is a great seller. Stick to the facts and go on and on about the wrapping. Then after making that point a few hundred times tell them what you pulled. He should have noticed the missing logo though and I'm sure yours wasn't the only box. Have a look thru his comopleted auctions for other spgu boxes he sold and email the buyers to ask how they did and if it was sealed properly maybe?

Worth a shot and you have nothing to lose.

Take it up with paypal etc too. He may lose out in the end but a good seller should do the right thing after he stuffs up and misses the detail like this.

I too have bought several cards off him in my time, and have found him to be one of the more professional sellers I have dealt with. I personally would like to see the auction listing itself before giving an actual response, but from what has been said so far:

1) You shouldn't have opened the box when you saw it didn't have the Upper Deck shrinkwrapping, I would have thought most people buying boxes would know the shrinkwrapping has logos... if it's your first box break then you can be excused.

2) Despite that, dependant on what is written in the auction listing, it appears he has misrepresented his product and you are entitled to a full refund. Whether he shipped it himself or is placing blame on a third party is irrelevant, as the seller he is responsible for you recieving the goods you have paid for. If the third party is doing the dodgy that is his problem, not yours.

That said, I would suggest you email him again and try to avoid the paypal thing... When you put in your complaint inevitably paypal will say a full refund is warranted and you will have to ship the box back to him (at your cost), if you tell him this you might be able to get him to pay the return shipping so he can avoid the hassle of the paypal complaint etc.

But again, I would like to see the actual ebay listing before finalising any of the above comments.

I dont actually think you have much of a leg to stand on. IF you had left the box unopened (had you noticed the non-logos), you COULD have sent it back for a complete refund.

The seller listed the box as "sealed hobby box" if he said FACTORY SEALED, you'd be in the hot seat for a win win, but as it's just sealed, we can only assume that it means factory sealed.

All I can say, is phone PayPal, show them the links, show them pics of the box, the card, etc, and pray they can help.

$35 partial refund has been offered, I'd take it and build a bridge. After all, it could have been a small-time auto, and you wouldnt have paid $35US for it to begin with......

Upon reading the listing, where he doesn't state it isn't factory sealed, I think you're quite within your rights to demand a full refund. Like I said before, email him and try to sort it out before going to paypal though.

Wow! Your in a tough spot Andrew. I'm looking at a box of SPGU right now. The plastic is all clear and printed in white is the Upper Deck logo, and importantly the seal runs on only 3 sides on the box.

Basically, everyone who has posted is right. It really comes down to being realistic, and looking at it through the eyes of the judge and jury -eBay/Paypal.

Bigboyd feedback 30,000+ Titanium Powerseller.
Andrew 3134 feedback 50

Now, for argument sakes, in any dispute based on feedback and reputation who do you think is going to win? Remember, also eBay makes a minimum of about $US15,000/mth from their sales.

It's unfair, but that's the politics of the whole system. You may also want to try squaretrade dispute resolution which is supposed to be a 3rd party. It's been used against me, and I found it to be ok.

Personally I would take Scotty's advice and take the $35 and cut your loses. You'll save yourself alot of time and fussing around with Terry and Upper Deck.

I think you need to be real careful who buy from in the US. Most respected dealers like this buy from many other vendors in very large quantities. They then bust open alot of the cases hoping to get the hit and some money back. Most times they will break even or come out in front and sell their 'hits' under a different ID. The rest of the boxes are sold, which is why they appear to be cheap. Sometimes you can get lucky but the majority of the time you lose out.

I was unaware of this procedure until I was told 3 years ago by my current suppliers. I found out that people do pull much better cards on average (there's still the rotten box), than when I never bought directly from the manufacturers sellers, and bought from other 3rd party sources who busted open cases and resold boxes etc.

Try and find sellers you buy direct from the manufacturing companies (like me - sorry had to put in a tag for myself ). This way you avoid any tampering/searching/resealing etc, and you don't need to worry about quality assurance. You do pay a little premium, cause majority is bought by the case, but you stand a better chance of getting something worthwhile, and save yourself a bunch of headaches.

Sorry for the long post, but it is important to know the otherside, and I know you've bought from me before too

Good luck with what you choose to do, and keep everyone posted with what happens.