what's the real story of kobe bryant 03-04 EE?

GoldenBoy23

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I've seen numerous thread about this card why it was selling so high before and now drops to a quarter of what it was going 2 or 3 years ago. Kobe's 03-04 Extra Exquisite /75 is the second highest bv of a jersey card, 97-98 UD game jersey of MJ tops w/ bv of $1200 while kobe's 03-04 Extra Exqusite bv $800. just wondering what's the real story about this. do some guy/s corner the card so the result is it will inflate in prices? or it is just selling high because the first year of exquisite is like the first release of UD game jersey? like MJ was the star of the 98 and kobe to 04? MJ's 03-04 EE is only valued bv $400 btw. anybody got the real story to share? :cool:

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I thought it was that someone was buying them all up...like had 75% of the print run, therefore when they came up for auction he was driving the prices real high as player/set collectors couldnt get one.
 
I dont love conspiracy theories at all, but this situation looks strange. In March 2006 this was still a 100 USD card according to Beckett, then it skyrocketed to 1200 USD all of a sudden a year later and gave up ground since.

And now, while prices are still high, that same company issuing these overinflated book prices just sold a pair:
2 - 2003-04 EXTRA EXQUISITE Jersey KOBE BRYANT /75 - eBay (item 360229978734 end time Mar-18-10 08:19:03 PDT)
and is currently offering even more of these "rare" cards:
eBay Seller: beckettmedia: 2003 kobe exquisite, Sports Mem, Cards Fan Shop items on eBay.com

In the page behind the first link they give some explanations for why they think, this is such a special card.

But really looks like artificial inflation here. No reason for these cards to quote higher then the Jordans. Which comparable other Kobe card does ?
 
maybe the guy who is looking for the complete run was on holidays or had died as these cards were massively sought after by one individual. the seller through beckett media must have shat his pants when he saw where the auction ended as he was expecting at least $1,000+USD for the pair.

or is the guy who bought up all the kobes at ridiculous prices selling them off now through beckett media?
 
Hmmm. same explanations by BennyJ and westriot. then who is the guy who's buying up all the kobe EE? is the guy partnered w/ beckettmedia so that they will earn all the proceeds since they are getting all the kobe EE in the past. talk about card hog. :eek:



daveduffield. just notice the auction the other EE was damaged, I reckon both would sell more than $450 If only they were in great condition. Man Imagine a single piece of jersey card for $1000. :kick:

I dont love conspiracy theories at all, but this situation looks strange. In March 2006 this was still a 100 USD card according to Beckett, then it skyrocketed to 1200 USD all of a sudden a year later and gave up ground since.

And now, while prices are still high, that same company issuing these overinflated book prices just sold a pair:
2 - 2003-04 EXTRA EXQUISITE Jersey KOBE BRYANT /75 - eBay (item 360229978734 end time Mar-18-10 08:19:03 PDT)
and is currently offering even more of these "rare" cards:
eBay Seller: beckettmedia: 2003 kobe exquisite, Sports Mem, Cards Fan Shop items on eBay.com

In the page behind the first link they give some explanations for why they think, this is such a special card.

But really looks like artificial inflation here. No reason for these cards to quote higher then the Jordans. Which comparable other Kobe card does ?
 
you also have to remember this is before kobe retired the number 8 jersey and changed to #24. That may have something to do with the price.
 
Since I posted on the other site...


That was a very interesting situation as was with a few other exquisite cards. and Id just like to make a few points.

As it was obvious to me, from the price history of the cards that he was just purely trying to profit from volume weighted average price. By that I mean he was exploiting how most people seem to value copies of the same card using 'last paid price' or a few most recent prices, thereby treating demand as being perfectly elastic (and homogenous) for all consumers based on 'last paid' price. That I think is completely flawed....
Just for example on how he was trying to profit.... lets assume he wanted to 'corner' the market....so he quietly start picking up these kobes at say $100 each...assume he manage to pick up 20 at $100 first...then prices gets pushed up so he picks up 15 more at average $200, then he picks up 10 more at average of $500.
total outlay for these 45 cards then is 2000+3000+5000 = $10000. giving an average price paid for these cards of $222.22 each
lets say he then 'intentionally' overpays for cards from then on (with others help in bidding) and get 5 more cards over time, at prices $1000, $1500, $2000, $2000, $2500 in that order.... so he ends up picking up 50 cards, at total cost of $17,000.
average price per card however has only gone up to $340. But the general market consensus value of his holding would be approximately 50 x $2000 = $100,000, GIVING THE ASSUMPTION THAT HE WILL CONTINUE TO CHASE THESE CARDS AT THOSE PRICES.
You mention that there is a variety of other bidders other than you two...but it is also very likely majority of them were also trying to profit from the fact that they know there is a guy who 'seems' to want to pick up every copy.....when these people see that he is willing to pay $2000 for copies of the cards, they will be willing to pay $1500 naturally, as they can then flip to the coinguy for profit. So in reality the jump in demand from other sources, and the change in perception of 'value' is purely because of the fact that this one guy is attempting to pick up every single copy of the card. And by giving out that perception at a time when he has picked up alot of the cards for cheap already, it is in fact helping him in driving the prices up.

So now this guy has spent $17000 and picked up 50 of these cards. and successfully drove the perception of value of these cards from $100 to $2000 each. Now it is time to cash out, as he hasnt made a profit unless he can sell it.
What can he do....a few things. He can tryo to NOT to give the impression he is selling these. I would fathom a guess that he would try to sell these in smaller shows or going to other dealers, and not go thru ebay, and sell to people who doesnt know his ebay ID. do this secretly for awhile, given he has pushed the prices up (even in beckett) at say a 'discounted'/BS price of $1200-$1500, he can easily recoup cost. Eventually people will catch on, words will travel and those same people who were furiously bidding these up with the main culprit, will no longer bid on these as it become obvious the coinguy is not interested anymore and is selling.
At that time, it become a game of 'find the fool'. he is no longer likely to find alot of people willing to pay the high manipulated price, so he will try to find just one fool instead of the many. he puts up rest of the lot, at a heavily discounted price compared to his last paid....say he has 30 left, and he starts an auction selling all 30 at a total of $3000!! that is ONLY $1000 each!! CHEAP! (sarcasm). Puts in auction what the card has sold, and also what teh book value is etc etc, and say how great an investment it is to purchase and resell each one individually....when in fact whoever buys it has little to no chance to sell and recoup. but like I said...it will only take one fool now for him to be out, and since he has already made a profit, in fact anything above is jsut a bonus.

This strategy works very well with cards with medium print runs like 50-500 imo. stuff that are really limted....5-10 are tough to do because they just dont appear as often, and marginal price will affect average price ALOT MORE. whereas stuff that have higher print run are harder to get a good %.

As you can see, this is just one way people manipulate price and perception of value....there is also no guarantee it works...in addition the same strategy could be applied to any card really.....which is why I just dont pay attention to all the 90s euphoria atm, or really any sudden spike in a certain set.
 
So do you guys think they fella who has 500 odd Marvin Williams SPX dual materials will eventually drive prices up, and he can cash in on his investment????????? lol....
 
well...how many marvin williams collectors do you know? lol...
and how many people are willing to pay more than $1 for that card in their collection once noone is chasing it?
id say the prices have already been pushed up =D
 
There was one collector that had just about everyone that had surfaced since release! I remember on HK or somehwere, maybe SCF, reading about it, he was paying crazy for them!
 
great point bro, so at the end of the day the guy who manipulate the prices of Kobe EE from the past years is now the biggest loser.? or I'll say just break even to what's kobe's EE selling now. :whistle:

Since I posted on the other site...


That was a very interesting situation as was with a few other exquisite cards. and Id just like to make a few points.

As it was obvious to me, from the price history of the cards that he was just purely trying to profit from volume weighted average price. By that I mean he was exploiting how most people seem to value copies of the same card using 'last paid price' or a few most recent prices, thereby treating demand as being perfectly elastic (and homogenous) for all consumers based on 'last paid' price. That I think is completely flawed....
Just for example on how he was trying to profit.... lets assume he wanted to 'corner' the market....so he quietly start picking up these kobes at say $100 each...assume he manage to pick up 20 at $100 first...then prices gets pushed up so he picks up 15 more at average $200, then he picks up 10 more at average of $500.
total outlay for these 45 cards then is 2000+3000+5000 = $10000. giving an average price paid for these cards of $222.22 each
lets say he then 'intentionally' overpays for cards from then on (with others help in bidding) and get 5 more cards over time, at prices $1000, $1500, $2000, $2000, $2500 in that order.... so he ends up picking up 50 cards, at total cost of $17,000.
average price per card however has only gone up to $340. But the general market consensus value of his holding would be approximately 50 x $2000 = $100,000, GIVING THE ASSUMPTION THAT HE WILL CONTINUE TO CHASE THESE CARDS AT THOSE PRICES.
You mention that there is a variety of other bidders other than you two...but it is also very likely majority of them were also trying to profit from the fact that they know there is a guy who 'seems' to want to pick up every copy.....when these people see that he is willing to pay $2000 for copies of the cards, they will be willing to pay $1500 naturally, as they can then flip to the coinguy for profit. So in reality the jump in demand from other sources, and the change in perception of 'value' is purely because of the fact that this one guy is attempting to pick up every single copy of the card. And by giving out that perception at a time when he has picked up alot of the cards for cheap already, it is in fact helping him in driving the prices up.

So now this guy has spent $17000 and picked up 50 of these cards. and successfully drove the perception of value of these cards from $100 to $2000 each. Now it is time to cash out, as he hasnt made a profit unless he can sell it.
What can he do....a few things. He can tryo to NOT to give the impression he is selling these. I would fathom a guess that he would try to sell these in smaller shows or going to other dealers, and not go thru ebay, and sell to people who doesnt know his ebay ID. do this secretly for awhile, given he has pushed the prices up (even in beckett) at say a 'discounted'/BS price of $1200-$1500, he can easily recoup cost. Eventually people will catch on, words will travel and those same people who were furiously bidding these up with the main culprit, will no longer bid on these as it become obvious the coinguy is not interested anymore and is selling.
At that time, it become a game of 'find the fool'. he is no longer likely to find alot of people willing to pay the high manipulated price, so he will try to find just one fool instead of the many. he puts up rest of the lot, at a heavily discounted price compared to his last paid....say he has 30 left, and he starts an auction selling all 30 at a total of $3000!! that is ONLY $1000 each!! CHEAP! (sarcasm). Puts in auction what the card has sold, and also what teh book value is etc etc, and say how great an investment it is to purchase and resell each one individually....when in fact whoever buys it has little to no chance to sell and recoup. but like I said...it will only take one fool now for him to be out, and since he has already made a profit, in fact anything above is jsut a bonus.

This strategy works very well with cards with medium print runs like 50-500 imo. stuff that are really limted....5-10 are tough to do because they just dont appear as often, and marginal price will affect average price ALOT MORE. whereas stuff that have higher print run are harder to get a good %.

As you can see, this is just one way people manipulate price and perception of value....there is also no guarantee it works...in addition the same strategy could be applied to any card really.....which is why I just dont pay attention to all the 90s euphoria atm, or really any sudden spike in a certain set.


---------- Post added 20-03-2010 at 10:50 PM ----------

lol. yeah I remember the guy on HK. he said he doesn't even know the exact figure of all Marvin's SPX dual mat. he just keeps on collecting. onto 500+ now I believe. :)

So do you guys think they fella who has 500 odd Marvin Williams SPX dual materials will eventually drive prices up, and he can cash in on his investment????????? lol....
 
Good statement by xman regarding the Kobe card. Only thing i completely disagree with, is putting the 90s in there at the end of the comment, completely different market situation over there.
 
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